I wondered. I really wondered.
The quality of horde in battlegrounds has deteriorated extremely fast. Horde went from utterly destroying alliance, every single damn battleground, to unable to kill Balinda overnight.
I thought maybe it was patch 3.1. Maybe all the good hordies are off raiding Ulduar. After all, Horde did suffer a general dip in PvP competence with all the rerolls thanks to blood elves and death knights.
Especially blood elf death knights. For every decent BEDK (pronounced “bee dick”), there about fifty thousand absolutely horrendous ones. They’ve been stinking up my battlegrounds with their idiotic strategies and general ineptitude, but I put up with it.
You can’t really expect everyone on Horde to act like… well, Horde; not these days.
But still. Even with all the elves, even with all the douche knights, there was still eptitude. (Shut up, eptitude is a word if ineptitude is. Screw you, english.)
There were still warriors who would go out of their way to save a priest. There were still shaman who would drop a Grounding Totem not to save themselves, but the guy next to them.
Sure, there would still be about twenty peeps in AV that would mindlessly zerg, but there were still plenty prescient enough to defend stuff and grab mines, even if all that defense was only to backcap towers and graveyards.
For every moron shouting “let them have snowfall”, there was still five or six people who knew damn well that to do so was a strategically stupid thing to do.
Then along comes a bunch of children.
The achievement itself, I don’t mind. What I mind is all these poor sods queueing up for battlegrounds that haven’t the foggiest idea how to PvP, whether it’s on the tactical or strategical level.
A mage sporting naxx-25 gear with some Ulduar stuff sporting a server first kill of Sartharion and a raiding arcane spec is an impressive sight, no doubt.
But on the PvP front? He becomes nothing more than a hunk of meat hurled at the jaws of a hungry dog. Honestly, with only 15k health and zero resilience, I’m watching him only to see how fast he can die.
Or perhaps a Holy priest already sporting 2 pieces of T8, and swimming in awesome epics everywhere else. What does this elf offer the team? Hard to tell, seeing as the guy got one shot by a rogue.
Hundreds of thousands of people are after this achievement, and they are ruining it for the rest of us.
They don’t have the gear.
They don’t have the spec.
They don’t have the skills.
All they do is try to get their achievement done and end up dead a lot on the way there.
Let’s be honest. The vast majority of these people know that. They know they’re going to get three-shot, at best. They know that they’re presence is going to result in little more than being horribly destroyed.
But they do it anyway, because they want the mount/title/whatever.
Most of them don’t like PvP. That’s why they don’t, you know, PvP. It’s not something they find fun, so they don’t invest in it. Getting the achievement done is frustrating for the majority of them.
It’s frustrating for those of us who actually want to be there, too. We have the gear. We have the spec. We have the skills.
And it’s goddamn frustrating when you lose, over and over again, because your teammates don’t give a crap.
The worst part is that they know they don’t give a crap. They don’t want to be in that battleground just as much as we wish they’d /afk out.
I haven’t won a single AV since Children’s Day started, or even heard of one.
EotS is, generally, a total train wreck. The only times Horde comes close to winning is if we have at least one of the following: Warlord, High Warlord, of the Horde, or Conqueror.
Hell, I was in an Eye with a Warlord and High Warlord (who’ve been playing together since UBRS was the pinnacle of raiding) and we still lost because the rest of the team was utterly incompetent.
Warsong Gulches are around 40 minutes at their fastest (unless we get facerolled by a pre-made), and AB is similar to watching cats play chess.
So here’s a suggestion, Blizzard:
Stop it.
Seriously.
Nobody likes it this way.
The people who want to PvP are frustrated because their battlegrounds are filling up with these incompetent morons who haven’t the slightest idea what to do and have absolutely no will to change that.
The people who don’t want to PvP are frustrated because they have to participate in something that, at best, has no interest to them and, at worst, is akin to smashing their face into mirrors and then stabbing themselves in the legs with the shards.
You want to have these people participate in PvP for an achievement? Fine. Then do it this way:
- Win all five battlegrounds with your orphan out!
Shazam. You still force them to do something they don’t want to do, but at least this time they don’t have to completely screw up the battleground to do so.
Even better, this way they don’t have to keep losing running battlegrounds until they accomplish the damn thing.
I see these stories around the blog-o-sphere, about that kind Alliance who picked up the flag and dropped it so someone could return it, or that Hordie in AV who stayed around to let a group of alliance get the tower capping part done…
While heartwarming for some, these stories fill me with disgust.
Not directed at those who do this stuff, mind you, but the situation itself.
It goes against everything PvP is supposed to be.
I’m not asking for the achievement to be taken out of the game entirely. Just remove it from the title requirements.
Add in something similar that doesn’t completely destroy the spirit of PvP if you must; hell, even keep the achievement around for those of us who actually PvP to achieve.
Just stop forcing these poor souls to fail play some part of the game they’d be more than happy to never experience.
Hear, Hear!
I specifically opted out of the children’s week event. I toured my orphan got my pet but figured the BG’s would be a miserable experience at best so skipped the entire achievement.
I don’t pity anyone who wants/needs to do the achievement or those that want/need to pvp during children’s week.
I suppose the best thing to do is keep complaining to blizzard in the hopes that it won’t be such a miserable drama next year… I don’t really see why my orphan would be that interested in pvp anyway but it doesn’t give me much confidence in the next generation of blood elves.
I salute your patience though… I for one am not touching a BG till this event is over…
It’s a badly thought up idea for sure. I was quite lucky in that I am just starting to get back into PvP now that I can dedicate one of my specs to it (There is no faster way to suck and die than to go into a BG in fully PvE optomised Raid gear/spec), so I honestly didn’t find this achievement that hard to do on either of my characters (Admittedly being able to blink on my mage, and run faster on my Kitty druid is advantageous).
Maybe it’s due to low standards for Alliance anyway, but in most BGs I really haven’t noticed much of a difference in behaviour. EOTS – well, we try capping the flag while holding zero towers anyway, so no real change there. AB? Similar, just zerg around trying to cap stuff, screw defence. WSG – every fight there lasts years now due to people camping on defence, but meh, I still didn’t mind it.
The one BG that has really suffered is AV. Of the 4 goals, the AV one is the worst. You have up to 40 people all fighting to cap 4 towers. Rather than doing anything else (In each AV I have done I have never seen us try to kill Galv now), everyone just zergs for the towers, and epic fail ensues.
Anyway, I have my achievements now (got them on day 1) and I will just avoid the bad BGs until this is all over. Thankfully this is just a weeks disruption. I definately agree the whole thing was badly thought out though. Like you said, winning each BG with your orphan out would have been a LOT better, for everyone.
I am one of the raiders who did BGs this weekend purely to get that achievement done, and I 100% fall into the category of having very little clue “tactically or strategically”
I hated the thought of having to do BGs, and like you said, I KNEW I would annoy people who like pvp by doing it…and I am so glad the tone of this post was blaming blizzard rather than people like me…..
However, where i differ from the people you describe in your post is that I did make an effort to do it well…..I set my second spec to frost pvp, stuck on what little resilience gear I have (crafted stuff made while levelling tailoring, and one piece of hateful I got from VoA), gemmed/enchanted it with pvp type stats, and did some reading around BG tactics, and I do WANT to be good at it…
My thinking was that if alliance (my side) won the BGs, I’d have a better chance at getting the based asaulted etc, so other than one extra GCD for calling the orphan every time I rezzed, I dont think i was an enormous drag on the team, and by doing that, I picked up a few other random BG achievements in the process, which was a nice bonus 🙂
I must admit though, I wondered why the achievement was so specific (or hard for us none pvp’ers) a simple “win every BG” might have worked, but also it could have been like the other seasonal pvp achievement and be a simple “get XX HKs with your orphan out”…..
Funky. I’ve read many perspectives about this now. The PVE people say that the PVP crowd should just help them to get it over and done with, since it would mean they can easily get out of the way.
The PVP people are trying to PVP despite of knowing the achievements are there, and make it even harder on the achievers to get their achievment.
Spiralling down…
And in the end…neither side is getting anywhere. Gotta love when people are just not managing to meet in the middle.
Won’t work, players will (try to) AFK the five wins. In fact, participating in the end of the match would actually cost you the achievement credit, since players who are killed won’t have their orphans out if the spirit res doesn’t happen before the match ends.
I have no issue saying I’m one of those people you are complaining about, and believe me, I’m not any happier about having to blow hours in BG’s that I dont care for in order to get this achievement.
For the record, I DO have a clue about AV, a semi-clue about EotS and AB, but WSG has eluded me completely. I caught a break on the first AV. Someone had a hordee friend in there who was content to just keep swapping the tower back and forth… at least until the real PVPers arrived. But heck, it was done, and then I could make my way up to the hut and start healing people. EotS and AB werent too bad.
WSG was horrible…. I probably went through 20 of them before I finally stumbled into one that was all achievement folks. We set up a pure defensive strategy, killing flag-carriers before they left the room and took turns returning the flag until we all had it. Did we lose? Of course, we werent in there for the victory, we were in there to get our bleeping achievement over and done with, so we could leaving the BG-hell we’d consigned to by Blizz!
So, believe me, us fluffy bunny non=pvp types arent any happier about this than you are…. I’m just grateful its done now and I, at least, will be leaving the BGs to those who enjoy them.
I have 3 of the achievement requirements and I hated almost every moment of it. The only thing that made it tolerable was the fact that a couple of guildies grouped up and we helped each other (they helped me more, truth be told, since I didn’t have one clue about the BGs and what I’m supposed to do there).
I openly admit I don’t give a damn about the BGs and who wins, I am full PVE, never PVPed in my life and don’t intend to, and I know I am spoiling the game for the PVPers but seriously, I don’t care, I am being selfish and spending a couple of hours for the possibility of a future cool mount.
PVP *and* PVE players probably hate this achievement just as much – you hate it for spoiling your fun, we hate it for forcing us into something we don’t usually do (yeah I know, it’s not forcing etc etc). Bottom line, I hope none of the seasonals have PVP requirements again…
I’m a raider. I haven’t liked PvP in the past. Out of boredom and because I switched to a PvP server I decided it was time to learn. I’m still not that good, only have 3 pieces of PvP gear, but I’ve been topping the charts this week.
Yes, I got my achievements, but I got them the right way…by PvPing. It took a little longer than I would have liked, but it happened.
Last Saturday I was in an AV where I kid you not, 20 Horde and 20 Alliance all sat in a tower taking turns. I still didn’t have my AV achievement, but was getting pissed that no one was playing “by the rules”. So I attacked! LOL!
Needless to say I was cussed out by a dozen people and my purple whispers lit up like a christmas tree!!! It was the only fun I had in AV last weekend. 🙂
Euripides,
As one who has PvPed in the past, and now is mostly PvE (although I would like to think I retain a bit of my old chain-fearing skills), I feel your pain. Going into the battlegrounds and seeing people who did not even know how to play them, let alone contribute to winning – I could see how the PvPers were frustrated.
On the other hand, I understand it from their (PvEers) point of view. Blizzard made an achievement they had to do. So they did it, as fast and un-battleground-filled as they could. They didn’t want to be in there, either.
I love your idea. Instead of having everyone in the battleground competing for something that (especially in the case of AV) not all of the battleground can get ruins the game, not only for the people who don’t get it, but for those who don’t want it, and are trying to play their battleground. Your solution – making it worthwhile to contribute to winning – is perfect. /cheer.
Ive earned more honor this week than a normal week purely because I roll with some massively PvP geared players. We have been clearing out nodes while being outnumbered 4:1 because all of the achievement chasers have zero resilience.
+1 vote to keep these achievements the way they are!
I agree. I hate PvP so much that I even have an addon installed to automatically turn down duels. Does this make me less of a player? I don’t know or care, it’s just not my cup of tea, I suck at it and don’t enjoy it enough to work on getting better. Thus, I chose to ignore this achievement, just grabbed my pets and went on my merry way. But I have to wonder what Blizz was thinking. I’m not sure why they felt a need to throw in PvP during Children’s Week of all holidays and then they made it so damned specific that it’s ridiculous. I too thought, as you did, that just requiring a win would be sufficiently challenging.
I’ve been chasing the world event achievements doggedly since the achievement system was introduced. Even completed Noblegarden within 6 hours of it going live. But after one Eye of the Storm with the orphan out in my Ulduar25 raid gear and getting consistently two-shotted by rogues, warriors and feral druids I decided that the Violet Proto-Drake can just take a very long jump off the end of a very short pier. It’s just not worth the pain and grief. I’ll either not get it or wait for the QQ to reach epic proportions and watch Blizzard remove it from the meta. Again.
I do understand the frustration the hardcore PvPers must be feeling watching idiots like me ruining their Battlegrounds, although it’s hard to feel much sympathy. I’ve been suffering nerfs due to “PvP balancing” for years, so one week of QQ from the PvP crowd doesn’t even begin to balance the scales, but if it’s any consolation I won’t be contributing to the grief any more. I’ll be doing something more productive and enjoyable than trying to get The School of Hard Knocks. Like sticking needles into my eyes.
[…] and the other team would be an… inhospitable environment. Apparently I was right. Euripedes has a plea from the PvP side of the fence for Blizzard to please, stop this nonsense: So here’s a suggestion, […]
As an asshat who might have ruined more than a few games this week, I sorta feel your pain.
When I was in a guild that did a weekly Kara run, we had this other mage besides myself. He respec’d every second day to try to get his pvp or pve the highest percentile possible. I had points in blazing speed not because I used it, but because that’s where I clicked back in the day.
We were on our way to Shade, killing a bunch of arcane structures in the library, and the other mage is doing a mix of Arcane Missiles followed by Pyroblast. He was full fire at the time with no insta cast combo abilities. Another reason that the guild liked him was that he had wicked gear. Wicked PVP gear.
I didn’t want to be in battlegrounds this week, nor did people on my team want me there. Consider though that I got roughly 20k of honour from blindly bumbling into this and repeated smashing my head against the wall. There is really no punishment aside from losing and even that means you just play again. It’s not like wiping in a raid where you take a repair bill and you race the spawn timers.
When the best case scenerio is that things return to how they were before the event, it’s not going to be a great outcome.
My major problem was that I was actually trying to do the achievements & pvp at the same time. I went into the BG’s thinking that I would just pvp like normal and end up getting my achievements in a normal fashion.
HA!
It was pretty hellish I might add. We kept running into Horde Premades & couldnt even get out of the starting area LOL. I was frustrated with many other people who were doing the acheivements with me. I ran into AV once & saw a horde capping a tower so I murdered him. I turned around & saw 4 people with their orphans out who called me a “retard”.
God Love em’
Oh well, I’ll eventually finish up those remaining achievements and be Matron Fuubaar 🙂
I’m not sure why but the achievement system has turned out to be a to-do list for a lot of people. Especially the holiday events. Hearing a lot more griping about the events than enjoyment. Why bother? if it’s no fun?
But still they /sigh, punch their timecard, and doggedly set to work* doing what the Great Blizz said to do. (and pay them for it.)
*anything in this GAME that feels like WORK is something I refuse to do. Lately that includes pretty much all of it …
Because our e-peen requires us to have a 310% speed mount.
My sympathy goes out to you. After this week your battlegrounds will be back the way there were, and perhaps there will be a few new players there who were turned on to battlegrounds by the childrens week achievement. I know I may give it a try again.
I, for one, will be one of those PvE-ers who doesn’t step foot into the BG without making a PvP spec/gear first. I probably won’t be getting this title (Matron Sprink sounds terrible, anyway), which is okay with me.
And I don’t know about you guys, but on my server, it seems horde can’t win at ANY BG. I’ve been in 30 of ’em, and I’ve won a single EotS, and two ABs. The rest are all losses. Rawr.
I’ve given up on a violet drake a while ago. because being a silly pve carebear – I refuse to be forced into doing something I dislike THAT much in a game I play for fun.
I don’t know what they were smoking when they decided to force feed people aspects of the game they don’t like but whatever it is – I hope they will drop it cold turkey. hell – if you want achievements like that to involve pvp – how about making two separate lines of meta achievements? one for pvpers and one for pveers? I’m sure everyone would be a lot happier and if someone happens to enjoy both aspects – well then, they have two mounts to work forward to 🙂
I like the idea of mixing up the battlegrounds. It is only for a week, and it throws people completely off. How hilarious is it to watch people mob the flag in EOTS, without having any towers capped? Very.
And to watch completely geared up PVE’ers bite it in PVP? Priceless.
Enjoy it my friends, find amusement in the incongruity!
There is a whole section of achievements devoted to PvP – why the hell did they include this in what is obviously a PvE event?
Bah.
I entered the BGs with the intent of getting my achievement with as little of my PvP play compromised as possible. I did not expect anyone to LET me cap a flag, I sure as hell wasn’t going to LET anyone else do it.
I’m not terribly good at BGs, but I think I’m getting better. And having almost 800 resilience doesn’t hurt either. =)
WSG – I went on the offensive and still got my flag return. AT one point they had all 10 people in their base trying to defend and snag flag drops. We won 3/0. It did take 42 minutes but I had fun.
AB – I capped and defended. We won with a 5 cap I believe.
AV – OK, I have no clue what to do in AV. There’s always a freaking zerg and I don’t know where I’m supposed to be. The place is huge and I don’t know the names of places yet so I have to keep looking at the map. I need AV lessons or something. So I ran around looking for towers to cap, got one and defended it until the end. I think we lost.
EotS – Got 2 flags, escorted 6 more and defended bases. We dominated.
There were so many people that were even more clueless than I was… it was a blast. Ice Lance was doing MAD damage. Seriously? Ice Lance? Yeah.
On the flip side – The PvE players could really help their cause by at least equipping the craftable PvP sets. It’s not like no one knew this was coming… you can review the achievements months in advance and start preparing.
I hope Blizz learns from this. Having some PvP stuff in the PvE isn’t bad. Like the cooking one where you drop the feasts and then can leave or get X number of kills. But these were so specific and had to be done within such a limited time… not fair to either side.
Cimelli daniel16 novembre 2012Outre foron on a des chemins de fer à une voie annemasse –St. GervaisDivonne -annemasse, on a un tronçon qui attend depuis 70 ans il s appelle la ligne tu tonquin qui poniuartRéruir Genève à Aigle.
This Carebear did not enjoy getting the achievement done for the title. I knew I was gimping the real PvPers. I’d hate for them to come screw up my Ulduar raid.
I took the attitude of trying to actually do my job in the battleground. If the achievement happened whil I was doing my job, then I could cross it off my list and enter another battleground after the fight was over. 8 playing hours later this attitude paid off.
I’m posting to relate a story of WSG.
I joined in a WSG battleground and noticed that no one was leavin the flag room. After a minute or two I noticed no one was entering the flag room either.
I was in a WSG with two premades that were there for the achievement only.
I’m not a PvPer, but this infuriated me. I’m sure these PvE clown have the same ‘For the Horde’ mount I do. Would it really kill them to try?
I suggested to the raid that we engage the other side. The raid told me that they have been trying to get the achievement all day, and were tired of WSG. Once I explained that this WSG will last longer than the sun, they decided to play right.
We took every member of our team into their flag room with no aggression. The Alliance did nothing but watch, waiting for the chance to kill the flag carrier. We all went toward the flag, and all simultaniosly engaged them until all of the Allys were dead. We grabbed the flag and made it to base! The game was on.
This must have helped my WoW karma a bit. I got my achievement that battleground, and enough tokens to get my silly osterich mount.
They probably put PvP achievements in the event because the PvP people like doing the event too. It’s something for them. You think the PvP guys like having to tag every town in the old world to get an achievement?
Admittedly, the list of PvP requirements was harder to pull off this time, but I look forward to seeing what they have up for us next. Do XX or Heal XX damage in a single BG? Die in a BG? Lose a BG? Get XX buff in a BG?
The thing is, once people get their achievement, they don’t come back. So in a way it’s to the benefit of the PvPer to help them get it so they will get out. If anything things will return to mostly normal by Friday.
“Get an Honorable Kill while wielding your Beer Stein.”
“Win XX BG while smashing drunk.”
I think it’s “Aptitude” instead of “Eptitude” for some reason..
Amen to that. World event title achievements should NOT require PvP achievements to get them. At least not in the form they are in now, Blizz seems to be confused with the whole PvP / PvE thing I think. The Arena/BG junkies don’t want the raiding Junkies goofing up their fun and the raiding junkies sure the hell don’t want the pain of trying to fight not only the other faction but there own with these achievements. Trust me I know I joined the sheepish masses in the search for my title for this holiday and I never want to see EotS again for a very long time. As I side note though I do enjoy the occasional jaunt into a BG on a weekend to change things up a bit with one of my 2 twinks.
Is not that people are “forced” to PvP, is that people dont even try to win. They just try to do the stupid archievement. When the year passes and just 2-3 people got the purple drake they will be called no-lifers for the rest despite the fact that they tried the same.
People like shutting off hteir brain in WoW. Blizzard know this and please them.
I think the idea of BG achievements for holidays and whatever good, as long as they encourage good gameplay.
Say, get 25 honorable kills and not die once.
Or, within one day cap a total of 15 graveyard / towers.
How about some healing achievements?
I may be wrong, as I typically don’t pvp,
but on my priest… I would love to be
|”, the Renewer” or something.
Get over 1,000,000 healing in each of the battle grounds
or something. Maybe 1mil is too low, I’m not certain, but that’s not the point.
In any case, I am one of those mages who walks into BG’s with PvE gear on.
But, im frost, and I typically (actually definitely) hold my weight on the team. I just need to get more badges from raiding for my PvP gear xD Not cool enough to arena.
“Get an Honorable Kill while wielding your Beer Stein.”
I second this. This is a PvP achievement I can get behind! ^_^
As the Hordeling in the Stormstrike battlegroup who repeatedly retook towers on defense just to hand the achievement to friendly Alliance players … I apologize. ;.;
I hated this achievement, too. I hate PvP. I hate battlegrounds. I have no idea how to win WSG, let alone AV or EotS. Until this weekend, I didn’t even know I had to click on the flags in AV to take the towers; I thought they worked like the Stadium or Outlook (or other place I can’t remember) in Hellfire Penninsula.
In my defense, I tried. I gemmed and enchanted the Deadly legs I won in a VoA. I even spent 45 valor badges on the Hateful robe, which I also gemmed and enchanted. I flipped over to my destro/demo spec for a little more survivability.
But after floundering for hours, and growing ever-more frustrated, I gave up on doing it the right way and just went for the achievements.
I don’t mind cross-over between PvP and PvE achievements, but I agree: PvP achievements should reward you for doin’ it right, not deliberately doin’ it wrong, often at odds with your own team.
A couple of things.
The argument that horde suddenly suck because of Childrens week seems flawed to me. The driver for crap pvp’s to get the achievement is equal on both factions. Not your best argument. Slice and dice it however you like but i think other things must be at play.
I was not looking forward to this event at all. I never really PVP’d accept where the events have driven me to for the mount.
I enjoyed it. sure my gear was crap. No different to the hard core PVP’er trying to pug NAXX-10. Sure i didn’t really know what i was doing. but i enjoyed it and i played long after i got them all to help guildies out and to have a bit of fun.
Everyone should’ve known it was going to be a noob fest. Enjoy the noob slaying and let the noobs enjoy a part of the game they dont see.
I think the fundamental design problem was the achievements meant you had to be competitive agaist your own team. The design blew strategy out of the window
I do not know how to explain the situation: before Children’s Week, we on the Alliance side would never win AV (with idiots screaming “Rush to RH! Get it over with!”); during Children’s Week, thanks to people needing to cap, we had all towers capped within minutes and people recapping our towers for horde to recap (for their achievement).
Meanwhile, we find ourselves at Drek trying to beat the 6 minutes (we came close so many times) for the achievement—something that seemed impossible and out-of-reach a week ago and for some months even before the release of the new ultra-chic BG (SotA).
In WSG, for once, Alliance _tried_ defending our flag (or, at least, be around to recap the flag) instead of just rushing en masse to the Horde FR where 5 dedicated defenders would stonewall them, delaying them while the horde, unhindered, cap the flag, cross the great divide and capture the flag.
In AB, for once, Alliance _tried_ capping legitimate nodes instead of crying idiotically “rush farm, camp gy!” and leaving other nodes either uncaptured or undefended.
In EotS, for once, the Alliance realized that having a base for the flag to go, and having as many of those Alliance held bases as possible, instead of idiotically rushing to middle, crying “cap flag! cap flag!” before any base is capped.
All because of children.
So, what does it mean, then? That Horde can only lose and Alliance can only win when we have raiders from both sides ill-prepared for PvP war come into the BG?
I will admit, however, that when I saw the achievement for School of Hard Knocks, I gave a groan. I like fighting in BGs, and I had settled in a role that didn’t always have me doing all of these (I left it to the druids or shamans to cap the flag in EotS)… but on the whole, Children’s Week in PvP had unexpectedly been a positive experience for me.
Baaah.. stop complaining….
You know Blizzard doesn’t like QQ… so here’s my suggestion…
Make some suggestions to Blizzard.
Suggest that the next round of achievements require you to enter Raid Instances… and achieve something like…
– Die within 10 seconds.
– Wipe at 1%
– Ninja loot an item you can’t use
– Misdirect to Main healer
– Aggro entire raid instance, including bosses and win.
That should solve the problems… this is something that the PvPers can participate in.. even if they don’t really want to.
Ok, so I did this achievement. I hated every single second of it. I was happy when I ticked off the specific requirement, but it was labourious. Let’s face it, I’m a level 72 mage, in terible spellpower emphasis northrend greens. I got oneshotted when I even thought of straying away from the main zerg. In AV, I sucked, in that outland one, I did for the first-time, admittedly, I did take a tower, but that’s the main point of it right? You’re not meant to get the flag?
So seriously, I hate pvp, most of the frostbolts I dished out were resisted or missed (and yes I know you’re MEANT to use scorch, but I thought why not dish out lots of pain?), so why did blizz make us do it? I know i can’t pvp, i don’t particularly want to until i’m lvl 80 at the least, but i don’t want to learn the wrong things!
Lets go bg by bg
Arathi Basin : Zilch teamwork, I even let a draeni cap one of our farms before taking it back – that’s not good right?
WSG : focus on returning the flag? ok, so I stayed mid field and did no defense.
Eye of the storm? : I took the flag. Aren’t you meant to take the towers before everything else?
AV : I HATE AV. I could rage for hours about AV, but it would be only for one reason: I don’t get it. we lost. everytime. we got smashed. i couldn’t even see a tower to cap, cause we were fighting out of the base. So after 10 times, i get sick of it, run out of the fortress, and make a wild dash for a bunker waay up the map. So i got it, but now i hate AV.
Ugggh. I was going to dual spec with arcane and dual gear too, but now i’m really wondering. after that, and me being able to slaughter lvl 74 mages and locks, i can see potential, but blizz ruined it.
+ i have to get to 75 otherwise i’m double screwed.
I agree with euripedes, why force people to do bgs? However, i feel you are wrong in the first parts of the post, yes i was in the bg for the achievement, but you made it sound like their fault until the final paragraph.
I know we might not agree on this, but i just wanted to put my 200 cents in.
sorry, you made it sound like my, and the raider’s fault, not : theirs.
I can understand your ire here. But it’s not all bad.
I haven’t really been into a BG since WotLK, due mostly to my limited playtime recently, but in TBC I had ground out a nice amount of honour. I had reached the cap and spent it several times over.
I got my orphan out and went into the battlegrounds and played them properly.
WSG – I went in, chased the FC healing and HoF etc, we went for the opposing flag carrier, capped him and I got the flag return. We returned the opposition flag and won the match 3-0
Arathi Basin. I charged out, capped stables and played to win. We won 4-1 about 900 ahead in the end.
AV – on with the crusader aura, straight to Iceblood Tower, cap it. OK, we won that one 197-0. It was going OK, but the opposition started backcapping then went all out defence. Grrr
EOTS – It had already started, I arrived, stood by flagging healing people. Flag appeared. All my team-mates were still alive pushing the opposition back, I ran away and capped flag!! We won that one 3-0 in the end also by about 900.
I was presumably very lucky, but in all my matches we won, with proper tactics and everyone got their achievements done.
Bank Holiday Monday was an entirely different mater though!!!
http://meltedfaces.blogspot.com/2009/05/preaching-to-choir-why-seasonal-pvp.html
I’m totally feeling the pain here. I LOATHE PvP, except WG, which isn’t really. And I’m totally through trying.
The key to getting these: find a guildie who has at least a vague idea about BGs. Go with him/her, preferably on Vent. Follow instructions. It took me about four hours (and two lovely people to help) but I got all the damn things.
The side effect was that I kinda-sorta understand why BGs are fun. They are a PAIN when you’re trying to do one certain thing in a certain time period, but the crazy fights were actually cool, even with my 100% PVE spec and gear.
Do PvE players really not see BGs as just really chaotic raids?
Especially AV. AV has bosses that you have to take out. It also has tons of trash. Just try to re-visualize that the trash is random aggro NPC instead of a player.
Maybe it’s the getting killed over and over again. That is probably the biggest hurdle.
Yesh I rather be raiding.
Hah! Am I the only one who found the School of Hard Knocks achievement stupidly easy?
I queued up for EotS, AB, and AV. EotS dropped first and I wandered in. A minute later, the match started and I just freakin’ booked it to the flag, heh. Got there long before anyone else (horde didn’t even approach it).
Then AB popped and so I pulled the same shit but this time with the stables, namely I charged them and got there first (note I play a shaman, so no 20% mounted speed bonus except for crusader’s aura if it was on me). Capped it for the win.
Finally, and after we were losing AB 1500 to 500, AV popped and I gratefully accepted. This one was trickier, but I finally found a horde-controlled tower. An alliance was already capping it, with two others hanging around, when a rogue stunlocked the capper. The capper and the rogue died, and I jacked the flag for the win.
Then I queued for WSG. Here I got really lucky, joining a game that’s already going on. I run outside to the field near the horde base and there’s a dude there with the alliance flag, getting owned by alliance. I smack him with my spells and then spam-click on his corpse where the flag would spawn. Got the return credit even though there were 3-4 other alliance around.
Disclaimer: I PvP, but mostly only arenas. A dedicated PvP spec and 600 resilience could have been helpful except that I got each objective within five minutes of entering the battleground.
All it takes is a very strong sense of competition and a willingness to spam-click on stuff.
“Here I got really lucky”
and
“All it takes is a very strong sense of competition and a willingness to spam-click on stuff.”
Can you really not see how these two statements are completely at odds with each other? You got lucky. Repeatedly. And that made it easy for you. That doesn’t mean it’s easy for everyone.
I’m so sick and tired of morons who think that winning the lottery is easy just because it happened to them.
I’m an in-between here. I did the achievements on my hunter (because she’s my achievement ho) and hated it. I absolutely loathe hunter pvp.
So what did I do after I was done? Hop on the mage and do BGs for the rest of the weekend almost nonstop, because I get great enjoyment from killing allies with mah sexy missile barrages.
So for the achievements.. I know how to do the BGs and how to pvp, but I did them on a character that is only partially geared for them (huzzah for frost resist gear and the supergobs of stamina on it) and on whom I really don’t have the type of skills needed to be good at it.
Ok, so none of that was really the point. The point is, I don’t think they should do away with having pvp achievements in holiday events, however…they should at least make them something that will give non-pvpers a look at what a battleground is supposed to be like so that they get an honest impression of what should be done and might actually enjoy themselves and think about doing pvp more often. Perhaps they could have a separate set of achievements (like a set of ‘hardmode’ achievements) that include things like capping a tower with your kid out, that aren’t part of the meta, that hardcore achievement gatherers could still do but those not interested could skip.
[…] – Orphans fouling up the PVP? Great post by Critical QQ about the orphans in the BGs and the impact it has had on the regular players… but its sounds […]
Let’s hear it for Strand of the Ancients! As the one BG not featured in the Childrens’ Week achievements, the quality of play in there has been top notch this week.
I do wonder what they were smoking when they though that one up. I have nixed completing Children’s Week for precisely the reasons stated. I can’t PvP, I hate PvP, and I’m not going to a) ruin the battle for those who like it and b) compete with 5 million blockheads all going for the same acheive as me.
I have better things to do with my time.
I had never stepped into a battleground before this week so I had no idea what to do other than the description in the achievement. And no one in Arathi Basin or Warsong Gulch while I was there seemed to be doing anything but playing things out in a normal fashion. I didn’t even come close to completing either task.
I did pick up a few PVP achievements including Damage Control, which as a Holy Paladin I am kind of proud of.
I agree with this article totally.
I’m on the other side of the PvP fence. Although one day I plan to get into PvP, I’m not there just yet. For now I’m more of a casual raider and faction rep grinder. I only have T7 raiding gear and I don’t have any battlegrounds experience to speak of.
But I’ve been completing each world event in an effort to get that drake, and also because I enjoy the challenge. I’m a bit of an achievement junkie.
But, as I’ve posted on wowinsider.com, I’ve been playing since the EU launch, and doing this achievement is the single most stressful and unenjoyable time I’ve had in the game so far.
Not only am I spending hours in battlegrounds I don’t want to be in, but people in the battlegrounds don’t want me there either. It ruins the game for both sides.
I’m there for a single-minded reason; to recover that flag or burn that tower down or whatever. I don’t know the mechanics or tactics or where things are to be found .. I just want that achievement, and when I’ve got it, I can’t afford to wait n hours for the battleground to finish – I have to leave so I can try the next one.
This is unfair on me and unfair on the people who are there to play the battleground the way it’s meant to be played.
I’ve managed to complete EotS and AB out of pure luck, but with my gear and my lack of experience, I find myself completely unable to complete the AV or WG achievements.
Any time I get near that WG flag I get ganked, or feared and then ganked. I’ve come very close a couple of times, but with so many players in the same place, and with my slow laptop, it just seems like it’s not going to happen.
As for the AV tower .. I’ve only managed to find it once and it had already been captured. The rest of the time I seem to spend running somewhere North. I don’t know where I’m going, and usually somewhere along the way I get jumped and one-shotted. Yes I’ve looked at maps. Yes I’ve read up on the tactics. But running north from the moment the gates open just doesn’t cut it because (a) everyone has the same idea and they seem to know where they’re going, and (b) the other side head south, which means instadeath for me.
The worst thing of it all is that this will probably put me off the idea of battlegrounds for life because my only experience of it has been truly miserable, and along the way it’ll probably mean no protodrake for me. Double fail.
Poor show Blizzard. Poor show.
I’m not truly a PvPer, but I did extensive gearing up on my rogue and shaman at 70 in TBC, even joining a couple arena teams. See, I was in a very small guild, and PvP was the only way to get epics for me.
I got the achievments for my (non PvP) druid pretty easily, and I stuck around, fought the fights like I wanted to win and did fairly well for a having no PvP gear whatsoever.
My wife, on the other hand, hates PvP with a passion. I took her into one Eye of the Storm battle, and by the time it was over, she was foaming at the mouth about spending more time dead than alive, and when she was alive, she was stun locked for most of it. (LOL)
So last night after she went to sleep, I logged on her mage and queued up for BGs.
Now, I have a mage. He’s all of level 47 and has been for going on a year now, so I really have no idea what I’m doing, or how to PvP with a mage. So I go in, and man, it was a blast!
Arcane barrage —> arcane blast —> arcane missle. (or something like that)
Run through a pack, frost nova + blink, then turn and pew pew. Strafing with ice lance, or chasing down the flag carrier in WSG, ice lance, ice lance, arcane blast, blink, frost nova. Pew pew!
I can’t believe my wife had such a hard time. Yeah, I spent a good portion of time dead, but my time alive was very exciting. AND! I got all the achievements for her. I’ll be sure to moan and complain about how hard it was. 😀
I’m sort of in the middle of the boat, too. I’ve been strictly PvE for most of my WoW time, but I’m starting to do BGs. The first time I ever stepped into a BG was to pity the love fool back in February. Alliance 5-capped that AB and got the timed win achievement, and I had a freaking blast doing it. So I’m making a concerted effort to get better at PvP. I don’t have the resil gear or enough honor to buy it yet, and I’ve been too lazy to craft the LW set. I take a lot of damage (and die a lot) in my PvE gear, but I do a lot of damage and rack up lots of killing blows, too. But I’m trying. I read up on BG strategy before I went in. I know what I’m doing in each BG, I’m just not great at it yet.
As for the Children’s Week achievement, I got the AB and EotS parts of it on the first try. In AB, most everyone heads for GM or LM, so I just capped stables and then played out the game as normal. In EotS, I got lucky and was drawn against a horde group that was zerg-rushing one tower at a time (it didn’t work, but that’s what they were doing). I waited until they were all on the south side of the map and returned the flag to one of the north towers.
AV was a bit trickier. I kept going for the first tower, but was always too slow. The second I decided to just ignore the first two towers and cap one just outside the horde citadel, though, I got it first time. WSG took me ten or 11 tries, because trying to kill a pally/pally or RMP or warlock/priest return team when I’m the only alliance bothering to play defense == fail. I only got it when I gathered some guildies up to help.
TL;DR: As an almost-strictly PvE player, I don’t mind being “forced” to PvP for holiday achievements. I mind being forced (no quotes) to PvP badly for them.
No jokes about PvE players not being able to help PvPing badly, please.
Lots of people talking about how much it sucks, how frustrating it was, and how bad an idea it is.
A handful of arrogant douchebags LOLWUTing at everyone and bragging about how E.Z. it was to accomplish.
News flash, douchebags: The fact that you got it means someone else didn’t get it. You are either lucky or lying. Period.
I feel for the PVPers, I know I personally stunk up the BGs big time. But to be honest I had a blast doing it…
I understand all the articles talking about how much it sucks and on the PVPers blogs talking about how much they hated having the PVEers in their BGs. It would have been nice at the beginninng of the week to do a “PVP for PVEers” type article. Just to give us a few pointers to help out.
I know a lot of people didn’t care to help just got their achievement then left but there were some of us that still stayed.
I think i’m one of the few that figured out that I actually enjoy it, with the exception of the pressure of trying to do an Achievement.
So i think now I need to learn strat, and work on getting some gear with Resilience…
BTW, the thing I HATED doing was trying to cap AV with ~80 other ppl trying to do the same thing… the whole speed race thing was ridiculous and I’m sure infuriating to the reg PVPers…
I hear you on that one, I’m not someone who is very skilled in the pvp section of WoW, however I have tried, I even sported the Merciless Gladiator gear before Wrath dropped, since then my gear is crap. I’ve always hated the pvp achievements for the holidays, and even though I bust my A$$ out there trying to pvp and get the achievement, I noted that some of the other team members weren’t much help. I’m not geared for it anymore, so I hate doing it. Sorry to be a pain people… I was one of the few trying to help though. <<is a frost/arcane (beat the stupid) spec… not quite pvp helpfulness.
[…] This one is totally sparked by the wonderful gnomeaggedon’s comment in Euripedes‘ blog regarding the Children’s Week PvP […]
Agree completely! Since 3.1 and dual spec, I’ve decided to do much more PvP because I can have a separate PvE and PvP build. That said, I’ve spent most of my time PvE’ing and have just recently started picking up my hateful gladiator set.
That said, WSG especially was MISERABLE this week to try and get the achievement as well as win the BG. I eventually gave up on trying to win and just went with the rest of the group until everyone was happy and had their acheivements.
I can’t wait for things to be back to normal this weekend!
Well, for anyone who’s interested in an update, I managed to cap the AV flag last night, after a few runs. I eventually learned the fastest route to it, and I think the only reason I got it was a blink at the start before mounting – it was very close though!
But try as I might, I could not get the WG flag, although I came close a number of times.
I’m not PvP specced, so most of the time I can’t get near it, and quite often I was taunted by the flag carrier who wouldn’t even run from me. He’d sometimes stick around just to one shot me.
So it seems that this time next year I’ll be running WG for a week. Who knows – maybe I’ll have some PvP gear by then!
Congratulations, everyone, this is now something like the most commented post on the entire blog.
From the looks of it, I touched a nerve somewhere.
Hopefully Blizzard gets the message.
Let’s hope so! This world event has definitely received the most abuse, even more so than the RNG game that is the Bag of Candy.
If only I’d had some PvP gear and a little practice, then I might have been able to complete this one. Maybe I’ll do some more battlegrounds over the next year in the hope that I can get hold of some good gear and last a little longer next time! It just sucks that at a minimum, it’ll now be a year until I can get my mitts on that drake.
Anyway – thanks for this article. In the midst of people telling everyone to stop complaining, and whilst all the people who got the achievement claim that it was easy, this blog has been a great sounding board for people who really have something to say – for different reasons and from different perspectives. Bravo!
I just hope I didn’t upset too many PvPers in the process of it all ^^
If I ever get my drake in the end, it will be dedicated to the two guildies who took me in the BGs, explained what I had to do, healed me and guided me to the correct flags and towers.
Sorry, but as a member of the “I get no proto until February 2010 because I only got 5/8 Be Mine candies even after getting a new gift almost every hour of the event” club (of which there are more members than you may think), and subsequently a member of “I got Matron on 2 characters on the first day of the event” club, I can say that there is nothing, NOTHING worse than the Be Mine RNG shafting, and there never will be.
I accept people’s views on Hard Knocks. I think it was badly thought out too, but what I don’t accept is that this is the worst achievement in all the World Events thus far, because it quite simply is not.
Weather you PVP or not, this achievement was do-able. Of course some people will find it harder than others, some people will be luckier than others, and it put proper BG playing on hold for a week, but it was still do-able.
Until Dual Spec came along I hadn’t PvPed since the TBC days. As a regular Raider, I had about 150 Badges of Valor lying around, so I bought myself some hateful gear, gemmed it up with sensible gems for PvP, made a viable Frost Spec, and got on with it. And while I appreciate not everyone will be in a similar position to do this, this achievement was more than do-able even without all of that. I know, becuase I then proceeded to do the same on my 5 man heroic-kitted Druid.
This achievement may have been badly thought out, but there are MANY worse ones out there. The only reason this one has got so much attention is because it’s part of the proto Meta.
It’s interesting how this has been perceived by different players, and it’s all down to various factors, including experience, character class, gear, luck and circumstance.
Although I only got my last candy at the very last minute (in fact it was the morning after – but I had the bag – for some reason it bugged and I couldn’t open it the evening before), I still perceive that as ‘easy’ in the sense that you simply log in every hour, right click, left click, left click, right click, and then log out.
Yes it sucks if you don’t end up getting the candy you’re owed, and I feel sorry for those who logged in every hour and still didn’t get their just reward, but by comparison, I found that running the same battleground over and over and over again and getting ganked repeatedly was just soul destroying.
I don’t have *any* PvP gear and have no honor to speak of, and any emblems of valor I have are being saved up for T7.5 raiding gear.
I simply can’t compete with regular PvPers. I can’t get near the damn flag in WG, and I don’t think I should be expected to.
Anyone can open a bag of candy. That’s a level playing field. But I’m going to have to build up a collection of PvP gear before I stand a chance of getting near that flag next year.
I’d have to agree with Matt – I spent 3 days clicking on bags and got the achievement the morning after, when there were still NPCs with hearts – but it was just boring, not this annoying.
However, I can testify you DON’T need any PVP gear or skill to get the achievement. Just a little help from people who know what they’re doing.
Yeah that’s fair enough. I think part of my problem is that I was on holiday for the first half of it and by the time I got started on the battlegrounds, most people had done it, so there wasn’t any kind of a sense of helping people complete their achievement.
I think if anything, by the time I got started, everyone hated seeing those orphans out and I’m sure I got ganked all the more for it!
I’m convinced someone left one of the WG battlegrounds at the start as soon as he heard my whistle.
Maybe next year I’ll be able to jump straight into it and find a bunch of people who want to help each other out. At the end of the day it’s in the PvPers best interests to get us out of there anyway.
I listened to a podcast the other day (I think it was Rawrcast) and they were talking about an AV game where both sides were literally orphaned up and queueing to complete it, taking it in turns.
[…] the School of Hard Knocks achievement. The common consensus has been (from both PVEers and PVPers alike) that this achievement (and any achievement that takes PVE players and forces them into a […]
I’m late to the party.
But “… AB is similar to watching cats play chess” was laugh out loud funny.
That line just made my most frustrating moments in AB last week completely worth it.
Cheers!
Taz
Agreed! ^^
[…] /signed wholeheartedly at the well put rant of Euripides, who suggested that the achievements should rather have been about winning the BG:s. In that way […]
[…] /signed wholeheartedly at the well put rant of Euripides, who suggested that the achievements should rather have been about winning the BG:s. In that way […]
oh man i remember this one time me and my friend queued into a wsg and our team was standing there letting the opposite team take the flag.. they told us not to interfere.. man we started tearing shit apart. im not about to give that shit up like that. our team refused to heal us or anything. some bullshit
First, your blog is great thing, i’ve read it, you see, for 4 months back 🙂 Despite i have no clue about mages, your tips and your style is just awsome.
I just want to add for this post that this “achievement” was even worse for those who like PvP. Though i’m doing the whole line on the character i don’t PvP with, and so i’ve done this achievement with PvE geared warlock, gear and lacking of PvP experience with this class wasn’t the issue with it.
The issue was that in order to get this done you need to stop playing for win and play for achivement.
You need to mindlessly rush to the uncapped tower to lose it in a min after you cap it instead of helping to defend the tower that is capped already. You need to go and grab this flag in EoS as a warlock – instead of fearing away and dotting the oposite side players that trying to do it, letting your druid to grab it.
I don’t mean that i’m good in BG’s, but i like them and suppose i know basics. Doing just stupid and worthless things during the whole game just to get this thing was my worst PvP experience ever. Whoever was the author of this seria, he was damn wrong.
[…] Read the post in its entirety here. Still relevant today, despite being a year old. Fancy that. […]
[…] Great post by Critical QQ about the orphans in the BGs and the impact it has had on the regular players… but it sounds funnier over there ^_^ […]
[…] the other team would be an… inhospitable environment. Apparently I was right. Euripedes has a plea from the PvP side of the fence for Blizzard to please, stop this nonsense: So here’s a suggestion, […]
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