The actual dps increases are something more like adding Pyroblast to Torment the Weak and Empowered Fire. That may have missed the most recent patch notes.
Buh.
Yes, ghostcrawler, a change this huge did miss the patch notes, just a little bit.
So uh.
Yeah.
Pyroblast added to TtW and Empowered Fire.
Now when I say a huge change, I mean “significant DPS boost”, take that however you want. Obviously Pyroblast will not be worth casting as part of a rotation, it’s still strictly Hot Streak only.
But, when this patch gets released, those Hot Streak procs are going to hit significantly harder. How significant? Well, depends on your spellpower, really.
Adding Pyroblast to TtW is an excellent short term solution. A flat 12% damage increase to Pyroblast, boom, done, easy buff, and hey hello fire PvP buff too. Good job, all around.
Where I see a problem is with the TtW talent itself. That talent has been drastically overbudget for a long time now, and all signs point to it staying that way until Cataclysm at least. I’ve complained about TtW before, so suffice to say: the design of it sucks, but you still have to take it because the damage boost is so huge.
Adding Pyroblast to Empowered Fire is also a very significant boost to the damage Hot Streak can do, but this one will depend on how much spellpower you have kicking around.
Just to use a strawman, say you have three thousand spellpower raid buffed. 15% of that spellpower is going to be added to whatever damage your Pyroblast deals, so an extra 450 damage to every single Pyroblast you fire. The number could be different from 15%, of course, I’m not on the PTR, I can’t tell you for sure. In any case, good change is good, DPS increase is a DPS increase, hurray huzzah for Pyroblast’s hitting much harder.
Oh yeah, and Combustion is now a 2 minute cooldown.
Now the inevitable question: does this make fire viable again?
The inevitable answer: fire has always been viable you twat. It just hasn’t been as good as arcane, is all. You want to talk about fire being oh so terrible? I think your fellow frost mages might have something to say to you.
Just because something isn’t #1 DPS doesn’t mean it isn’t viable. If arcane is beating fire by a margin of 8% DPS, give or take depending on the nature of the fight and how hard arcane can abuse IA, that doesn’t mean fire is absolutely terrible. All it means is that it isn’t as good as arcane is.
Now, if we were to go back in time half a year and watch frost mages flail wildly about at the bottom of the theoretical DPS charts, now there you could make an argument for non-viability.
Now, to answer what you meant to ask: does this make fire and arcane closer to each other, DPS wise? Is there a significant difference?
Yes, these changes bring fire and arcane much closer together. My initial assumptions and ridiculously fast napkin mathcrafting conclude that fire and arcane are definitely sub 10% in DPS difference, though fire is still behind arcane, even considering the IA nerf. I’d say fire is about 4 or 5% behind arcane on an average fight.
To me, that is an insignificant difference. To me, that says “pick whichever you prefer”. Arcane and fire have different specialties and completely different playstyles and gearing decisions, so pick the one you want to play.
Fire is better at AoE, provides better sustained single target damage, superior range and mobility, and can dominate fights with continuous multiple targets (Kologarn, Twins where the two are tanked close together). Arcane can switch targets much faster, due to having no ramp time, has much stronger cooldowns (and thus far greater burst) and doesn’t suffer from DPS “lag” as fire does with ignite and living bomb.
Or go frost, if you like.
A tree does not have to be optimal to be viable.
I’m so excited about this, I’ve loved fire in wotlk, it’s hands down the most engaging spec we have.
I’m curious how other raiding mages will be handling their dual spec, I’ll probably keep arcane and change my secondary spec to TTW/FB. Even with the specs so close I just can’t see myself dropping arcane it’s just too damn good in ICC, and will more than likely stay that way through hard mode progression.
I dont understand what do you say!!! spanish please!!!
When he said it may have missed the patch notes I wasn’t sure whether or not to file the information with ICC having 31 bosses or not.
There was a post over at wow.com awhile back about BM. In a nutshell: Spec how you want, but when you go to a raid, your spec just became the raid leader’s business. If the raid is wiping because of low damage, he’s going to see the BM hunter low on the charts and start asking questions.
In a progression situation, if I was playing a mage, and the raid leader said “our DPS is too low” and all I had to do to get 5% more DPS was hit the respec button I would do it in a heartbeat.
Think about it, a weapon enchant costs hundreds of gold, but represents only a small proportion of your total dps, yet you still go out there and get it.
Yes, fire does acceptable damage. Is it viable? Nope. Why? Because it happens to be in the same Class (mage) as Arcane. Unless we’re talking about fights where a fire mage can clearly come out on top, I would still spec Arcane. I feel like doing less than my best in a raid is rude to the rest of the group. And as for those fights where fire shines, well, that’s what dual spec is for. 5% is still too much variance for me to not feel like I’m being rude if I was fire.
As for torment the weak, I feel that talent basically killed frostfire bolt, so yes, I would love to see it go the way of the dodo.
If a raid is wiping to non-hard mode fights, and indeed most hard mode fights, due to not enough DPS, the spec an individual raider chooses is not the issue. Assuming the spec isn’t retarded, of course.
A difference of 5% is simply far too small of a difference to make an impact for the vast majority of end-game raiders, as such a difference is easily trumped by raid comp, player skill, and even gear.
The kind of raider doing content where such a difference is treated as a massive gulf isn’t going to spec according to what he “wants” to play anyway, because what he wants to play is whatever deals the highest damage, no matter how significant a difference it is.
If a raid leader starts pushing a BM hunter to respec because his paltry 7k DPS isn’t up to par with the other hunters rocking 8k DPS, the BM hunter is simply in the wrong raid.
When we’re talking differences that are measured in single digit percentages, that difference is a philosophical one only.
I don’t think whether 5% will make or break a fight is the relevant point to take from Felade’s comment, it’s that choosing not to take that easy 5% increase is like saying to the other 24 people you raid with that you can’t be bothered to do your best.
You may disagree, but choosing not to play the highest dps spec you have available is just disrespectful to the rest of your raid, I put it in the same category as showing up without consumables and repair money.
And asking other people to play a spec they don’t like is perfectly okay?
This is a game. It’s about fun. It’s one thing if someone is slacking off, isn’t putting in any effort, or stands in fire. It’s quite another if his only crime is liking the feel and style of, I don’t know, Enhancement over Elemental. Or the other way around. I forget which does higher theoretical DPS.
The only time I can see this argument making sense is if one spec brings an absolutely vital raid buff that others lack.
So long as he gears properly and knows his priorities and does decent DPS, let each player play as suits him. If he’s 1000 dps behind the next lowest, there might be a problem; if he’s 200 dps behind, quit’cher QQ.
The problem with that theory Lucy is that all the dps in a 25 man choose to play a spec that is 500-1500 dps lower than the optimal spec and don’t justify it by bringing something else to the table (buffs, AoE depending on encounter mechanics, etc) you end up with a cascade effect, fights go for longer and the longer a fight goes the more chance there is for someone to fuck up and wipe the raid.
If the content doesn’t matter then I can agree with your sentiments, but if you are progressing through content you don’t over gear than every little bit helps, regardless of how insignificant it may seem.
If the BM hunter is still above many of the other dps (assuming a Festergut fight – make allowances for add duty, etc.) then I submit that if there are dps below that hunter, they should step up their game. If a BM hunter is in 1st-5th on damage (25man) then there is probably more of a problem with the other dps than him/her.
[...] that Fire is back. I’ve been waiting for a mage blogger to go over the notes and finally Critical QQ did that for me. What I’m probably going to have to do is go dual specs and have them both. The problem with [...]
I am a happy mage.
<– very happy fire mage
as you said, would love to see changes to TtW (GC did hint at this in the blue) as well.
On mobility fights fire still can win at the moment, such as rotface (depending on RNG of infections and so forth). Roll on 3.3.3
<— also very happy fire mage. ^_^
Lhivera plugged the new values into simcraft. Arcane is only 1 or 2 % ahead on patchwerk fights and fire is ahead by a few % on “chaotic” fights.
Fire is not a viable raiding spec. For mages who raid, arcane is your only option. It’s the sad truth. As a dual specced fire mage, 3.5k dps is the max I can go on single target.
For e.g. on Sunday I was in OS and performing quite well (2nd after a hunter) on trash pulls. Then come the boss and slightly beating the tank in dps.
Heh. This will be AFTER the new patch. Don’t try to compare now.
I’m not sure about the rest of you, but avg DPS has gone down considerably in ICC as compared to TOC. Excluding Festergut where I get marked and all ranged collapses on me. The amount of target switching and movement necessary is the main reason for this. Having an instant cast like Pyro hit significantly harder and probably more often due to the combustion change would seem to make Fire better for a lot of the fights in ICC. Arcane is probably still the best when you can stand and deliver for most of the fight, but when you have multiple ads, movement and target switching Living Bomb and Instant Pyro’s would seem to be better, but “math is hard” so i could be wrong.
“Fire has always been viable you twat”
~ I spit out my Mountain Dew on that one!
The word “viable” is often and horribly mis-used in WoW, and I’m glad to see you touch on that.
If an encounter’s enrage timer calls for the DPS to each do x DPS, and someone can do x or greater DPS in appropriate gear to that encounter, their spec is viable. Hell, if someone can do their fair share as a melee hunter, then by all means do so and have fun!
Yeah, “viable” and “optimum” are two totally different words.