- Deep Freeze: This spell now deals a large amount of damage to targets permanently immune to stuns.
Translation: Deep Freeze: This spell now deals a truck load of damage to raid bosses and many trash mobs.
Obviously this won’t work against enemy players, ever. It’s a PvE only thing, and frankly this is good, as the damage it deals is HUGE.
How huge?
REALLY HUGE.
As in, self buffed only, it will hit harder than frostbolt crits, and itself will crit for ludicrous numbers like 18k. Yes, 18k. Yes, self buffed only.
It’s bugged right now in that it doesn’t benefit from Ice Shards, but even without it, Deep Freeze is still happily critting away in the 13k, 14k area. Again, I must stress that this is without any raid buffs whatsoever.
With raid buffs up, 13% more spell damage, Totem of Wrath… oh man. It’s just… I mean… wow. Fully raid buffed we’re looking at DF crits of around 24k. This right here, even using DF once every 45 seconds is still going to result in an increase of about 10% to a frost mage’s personal DPS (not including WE), which is about 6% for overall DPS.
Even if nothing else happens, even if the permanent WE and this DF thing are the only changes that make it live, these are HUGE changes.
RIP Frozen Core changes, all hail our new Deep Freeze overlords.
Again, I’m basically sure Frozen Core isn’t going live, as it doesn’t really do anything for PvE. And GC agrees with me!
Philosophically, this is representative of a number of paradigms.
Most obviously, Blizzard desires to have multiple specs perfectly viable, and is pushing very hard to get different specs “close enough” for most players.
If frost is still, say, 5% behind arcane (which, with this DF change, it is), top end raiders aren’t going to spec frost. But a gap of 5% is practically nothing for the majority of raiders.
Three viable end game raiding specs for mages before the release of cataclysm? Who’da thunk it? This is… unprecedented. It’s awesome, to be sure, and fills me with a certian level of the warm and fuzzies.
This isn’t just good for mages. If Blizzard can get three viable end game mage specs, which it is on the cusp of doing, then there is nothing stopping the same from being true for all other classes.
Even if the DF changes don’t make it in, even of the WE glyph doesn’t make it in, it shows that Blizzard is not only aware of our sadness, but is actively attempting to give us lollipops.
Secondly, a change like this means that Blizzard is willing to change their minds.
Anyone remember when they said they wanted to keep abilities as close to identical between PvE and PvP, using the defence “we don’t want WoW to be too confusing for noobs”?
An admirable goal, says I, but PvP and PvE are already vastly different. Two completely different gear sets, completely different mechanics, PvP and PvE might as well be separate games. Consider taunts and diminishing returns, resilience, spell penetration and hit rating.
And here Blizzard is creating two completely different behaviours for a single ability in PvP and PvE.
I don’t think this is Blizzard abandoning their “PvE=PvP” policy, but it shows they are willing to compromise when they need to.
The divide between PvP and PvE will increase substantially in cataclysm, what with essentially “flavour” talents being the only ones left, and that whole “path of the titans” business providing an absurd level of customization. Which I, personally, am fine with. The bigger the difference between PvP and PvE, the better.
Enough philosophical rambling. To conclude:
DF done got buffed. It be more better now.
Fine, more philosophical rambling.
Has the frost rotation really changed at all here? With Frozen Core out and DF in, the frost rotation will still be spamming frostbolt while hitting DF whenever possible. Wasn’t the whole point to get Shatter combos into PvE and stop spamming the same button over and over again?
Which brings to light a very interesting question. If it isn’t possible, then which do frost mages want first?
Frozen Core doesn’t make frost end game viable, but it gives it shatter combos.
DF makes frost end game viable, but it does not give it shatter combos.
Or does it? With DF being instant, only usable with a FoF proc, and hitting harder than anything else in the game, will it actually feel like a proper shatter combo? It’s usable on the FoF ghost charge, obviously, there’s really no way for Blizzard to fix that (unless they make FoF a limited duration affair with none of this “charges” business).
A FoF proc could easily be: FrB, FrB, DF, resulting in something that (maybe) feels like a shatter, albeit a shatter than can be performed a maximum of once every 30 seconds.
Personally, I think getting frost end-game viable is the priority. Anyone who’s still frost is more than willing to put up with more frostbolt spam by now, especially if it suddenly doesn’t suck anymore. Those who haven’t played frost in a while, but still love the spec, would probably return as fast as they can press the respec button.
At least, most of the cryomancers-at-heart I know do.
Three viable raiding specs? Madness!
This does indeed seem a very good thing, though I believe hunters have (or have had at some point in Wrath) all three viable. Maybe. Based on what Pike says >.>
This might be enough to bring me back to the game… and I didn’t leave that long ago =P
Based on mathy theorycrafty stuff, Beast Mastery is currently about 8%ish behind the other two hunter specs. This is, however, assuming you’re doing a Patchwerk style tank’n'spank. The gap is rather minimal for most non-super-hardcore raiders and in my guild I typically, as BM, outDPS most other hunters in ToC25 et al.
So, the “Do hunters have three viable raiding specs” question is really dependent on who you ask. As I’m sure “Do mages have three viable specs now” would be ;P
I read your post and soiled myself I am so happy.
The title is actually based on the fact I did a literal spit take when I saw the change. I was drinking root beer and almost destroyed my laptop >.<
[...] when I heard this….Deep Freeze: This spell now deals a large amount of damage to targets permanently immune to [...]
When I originally rolled my mage in Wrath, I was leveling fire, went to frost at 45, tried arcane for about 2 minutes after I got AB, back to frost till 75, then I was Frost FFB build. I would love to go back to frost for some nice frost crits.
Can you ghost the new DF as a third FOF charge?
It is odd how heavily the PVP and PVE frost specs will differ; PVE has no frostbolt snare, no WE freeze, and a large hunk of DF damage. Still, the design of DF has been a problem for a bit now, in that it was effectively PVP only. I hope they stick with the new version.
Correct, DF is usable on the ghost charge.
Diaper sales continue to soar.
Woohoo! I can’t wait to switch back to frost.
Disclaimer: I’ve not paid attention to frost theorycrafting at all. After reading this post, I came up with the following spec: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage#_CNA9hMeYADRb0,pNI-QO,10623
It’d be awesome if Spell Impact affected Frostbolt. As is, that’s three points I’d rather have in, say, student of the mind depending on how much FoF procs. On a slow proc day, you might go a couple minutes shatter combo-ing with just DF, which makes for wasted talent points. Then again, I seriously doubt PvP frosties need that buff. (Then again, maybe PvP frosties have better places to spend the points. What do I know?)
Oh yeah, and that spec assumes Brain Freeze will become a not-liability. That’d be pretty cool too.
Just a few notes if you want to try this build:
- drop Frostbite. All it’s going to do is annoy your tanks during trash pulls. If you have Fingers of Frost in raiding, you don’t need Frostbite, as they will always proc at the same time.
- pick up at least one point in Improved Blizzard. This will allow your Blizzard ticks to proc Fingers of Frost and Shatter. Very fun.
- as it stands right now, more than 1 point in Enduring Winter is unneeded. As we’ll have a permanent Squirtle, the only benefit of the talent is Replenishment. And since we’ll be chain casting Frostbolt anyway, you’ll be able to keep it up easily with only a 33% chance to go up.
- Arctic Reach is a better talent to grab than Icy Flows. Only on very, very long fights are you going to notice the CD reduction of Icy Veins, and the extra range offered from Arctic Reach is great for movement fights.
- Cold Snap is definitely a flavor talent at this point, with Water Elemental now permanent. Grab it if you want to reduce your Ice Barrier CD by 6 seconds.
- If the Frozen Core changes don’t go live, it’s looking like taking the Molten Armor glyph is going to be better than taking Ice Lance: you’ll never be casting Ice Lance for damage in a raid.
Everything else, go nuts. I personally like to grab two points in Magic Absorption instead of full Clearcasting. Two points in Improved Blizzard gives great AoE snare’age. Frost Channeling could end up as rather necessary if we proc Fingers of Frost really early and throw out a 24k Deep Freeze crit at the top of the fight.
Thanks for the tips. I for some reason had been under the impression that Frostbite was required for FoF. I think I had Flows because I’m so used to grabbing it as arcane…
Does FoF proc off of a glyphed Frostbolt? It shouldn’t, but you never know…
RE: Armond
Yes, it does proc off glyphed Frostbolt (thank jeebus).
So your main focus of the spec is to chain cast Frostbolt as quickly as possible to try to have Fingers of Frost proc’d whenever Deep Freeze is off cooldown. Expect to be stacking ridiculous amounts of haste as a frost mage.
Gief viable frost raid spec!
And o.O I guess I’m out of the loop… when was Lhivera allowed back on the WoW forums?
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!
Really don’t care at this point that my rotation will continue to do nothing but wear the “3″ off my keyboard: I’m going to macro Deep Freeze casts to make my character yell “BOOM!”
I do not have a mage.
But I am a Saint Seiya fan.
If I HAD a mage, and could spec this way, Deep Freeze would be macro’d along with a
/y AURORA EXECUTION!
This is seriously amazing…if this makes it live, I might start playing wow again.
Frost was always my favorite spec and the two things I always wished for was a permanent water elemental and for frost to be a viable raid spec…we’ll have to see if all of this makes it live.
Thanks for the updates Euripedes
Of note: You claim that with deep frost being viable, mages will have three viable raid specs. Has Fire/FFB slipped out of favor? Also, with some small changes to the beginning of the fire tree (and Brain Freeze letting you shoot FFBs as well as Fireballs), Frost/FFB could be viable as well, leaving us with a whopping five viable raid specs.
The FFB spec, 0/53/18, has indeed slipped out of favour. It’s a brand new level 80 “I don’t have enough hit gear to spec fireball yet” spec. In short, scaling issues. It’s almost as bad as frost for most end game content. I say most, as there are a few fights (hard mode Anub’arak, hard mode twin val’kyr) where FFB can utterly dominate.
A frost/fire hybrid, or a FFB spec that doesn’t have LB with it, is a possibility. Imagine, if you will, a spec that grabs Critical Mass and Frozen Core, using Ice Lance to pop off super fast FFB.
I highly doubt we’ll see such a viable spec for a very, very long time.
Hmmm, what if other spells that are mostly used in PvP for their special effects had a different bonus against mobs immune to said special effects? For example, Impact: The Fire Blast from this talent will now always critically strike on mobs immune to stuns.
This will suck soo bad in PvP if they don’t change it… Pop IBF because of the pally, get hit for 18k by the mage…
One of the first things that popped into my head is wanting to go back to Karazhan and watch what kind of ridiculous crits this would produce on an evocating Curator.
I heart big flashy numbers!
ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff