It took less than a month to get the gear together to legitimately try a FB/TtW build. (Yes, I still refuse to capitalize that middle t.)
I’ve got 4pT8 now, and am only 1% shy of the hit cap, though it doesn’t seem to matter. A thousand casts of Scorch on a test dummy and no misses. I’ll be trying the farm content this way, see what happens.
I had heard a FB spec was random in it’s DPS, but man… there is nothing that can prepare you for DPS swings that huge. I’ll be poking along at 3k DPS, when lady luck smiles on me and suddenly I’ve dealt 100k damage in ten seconds.
Lemme put it this way. Spamming scorch and using HS procs as they come can grant me DPS anywhere from 2k to 3.5k.
It’s like that one D&D game where I one shot a dragon, then killed a party member accidentally, cut off my own foot, and impaled myself all in the same round. Admittedly the dragon one shot was a coup dentist (or whatever that french word is), but still, it ain’t easy beating 65AC as a level 6 monk.
D&D nights that cause the DM to weep aside, all this respeccing has instilled in me a deep sense of anger that my beloved arcane tree is being so rigorously ignored.
The nerfs to Arcane Barrage I can understand. Weakening it in PvP successfully managed to get arcane PvP back to a non-competitive status (woops, heh, let some bitterness seep through there), but on the flip side resulted in ABarr being ostracized completely from a PvE rotation.
Which, believe it or not, us arcane mages are mostly fine with.
Fine by us to have it be our “movement only” spell; I mean, ABarr is basically Fireblast’s transvestite nephew at this point.
We don’t mind only really using ABlast and AM in a raid rotation; it’s simple, it’s elegant.
What we have a problem with is this notion among the developers thinking arcane still has that whole “mobile DPS” niche covered.
Well… it doesn’t. It really doesn’t. You know which spec can produce the best DPS on the move? Why, it’s fire, of course! ABarr cannot compete with the likes of LB/HS, and fire’s only going to get a LOT better at it when 3.2 let’s them…
Us.
Let’s us fire mages cast LB on multiple targets.
Arcane mages don’t mind ABarr hitting like a baked kitten, what gets those mage knickers in a twist is the delusion that arcane is somehow better than fire when running around.
Speaking of delusions, the best part is where a blind eye was turned to arcane’s scaling issues.
I know the whole “scaling” thing gets thrown around a lot, even GC himself had to comment on it once, called it a catch all complaint or something.
So all of you people using “we have scaling issues” as the default reason why your class is teh faile, please stop, because it makes those of us with actual scaling issues look silly.
And boy oh boy does arcane ever have scaling issues.
You know what the best part is?
We (we here used loosely to refer to theorycrafters) have known and feared that arcane would suffer from very serious scaling issues since freaking beta. Blizzard assured us that would not be a problem.
And here we are, on the cusp of 3.2, with very serious scaling issues.
/facepalm
Y’see, arcane has very few talents that scale, and those that do provide very tiny bonuses. Then, of course, those very few and weak scaling talents got the everloving crap nerfed out of them. C’mon, man, Arcane Mind and Mind Mastery were already relatively weak talents, was it really necessary to drop kick them down some stairs?
Oh hey, which reminds me, why is the mage tier gear so focused on fireball spec? The stats on T8 was already biased towards fire specs, as were the set bonuses, and T9 is even worse! (Or better, I suppose, if you happen to love fire.)
Sadly, I can understand exactly why.
Blizzard wants to homogenize gear as much as possible. They want to be in a place where every (reasonable) stat is desirable, varying little from spec to spec. Within a specific class, anyways.
For instance, DPS Paladins, Warriors, and DKs should all want basically exactly the same type of gear. Some stuff, like Strength and crit, are fairly universal stats. Stuff like Armor Penetration varies in desirability from spec to spec within a class. Unholy knights want nothing to do with it, whereas Blood knights love it.
Mages operate the same way, with critical strike rating offering very little to two entire trees, and offering a LOT to one.
Because of that, stuff like improving Molten Armor’s spirit to crit conversion ratio is pointless for arcane and hilariously useless to frost, while being immensely awesome for fire.
Then there’s the T8 bonus, which is bad for arcane, bad for frost, and pants wettingly awesome for fire… and so on it goes…
The real question is where to go from here.
One option is to simply have different gear sets to offer different stats and bonuses. The three trees already like different stats from each other, so having multiple, more optimal gear sets for each spec (and naturally, set bonuses).
Blizzard doesn’t like this option, as they want less loot, not more. Though ideally this would only be different tier pieces, so it wouldn’t cause boss loot bloat. But ehh, not likely.
The other option would be to simply adjust arcane and frost to like the same gear. Basically, crit needs to become a lot more attractive to those two trees in order to strike equality.
Or, Blizzard could simply say “yeah we know, but meh…”
It’s pretty obvious which path Blizzard is opting for, which is just kinda depressing.
Why bother going through all the effort of making arcane raid viable if you’re not going to bother maintaining it?
It’s not like arcane is bad, it’s just not improving, while fire just gets better and better from patch to patch and tier to tier.
Oh well. Dual spec for the win, I guess.
So I’ve been lazy, and havent looked at the new set bonuses.
My god.
Um… I seriously suspect that this will put FFB back in the running for top dps build. And arcane and frost are screwed.
I’ve gotten close to 800 spirit with one of my set bonuses…
On a related note… there is plenty of very nice haste/spellpower/spirit cloth out there, guy. Ive got a set that got my haste over 700.. and that 800 spirit, raid buffed i was talking about.
I’m not sure how much it helps arcane, but thats how I eventually got sarth 10man +3, as haste heavy arcane. (incanter’s absorption ftw!)
Euripedes we miss you :’(
Please stop this one post a week insanity and let us bask in you radiance everyday.
I have pretty much stopped understanding the changes blizz has been making to classes. It seems like they’re just making changes for the sake of changes. I can’t speak for hunters or rogues as I don’t play those classes, but every other class seems to have changes and I can’t really say any of them are beneficial. They all seem like either nerfs or changes for its own sake.
Warrior spirit stacking FTW!!! (jk)
I agree regarding the whole “not maintaining Arcane” issue. I loved Arcane earlier, it was the coolest spec that was out there! And it was also (relatively speaking *cough Frost cough*) a hard damage rotation. You had to constantly keep an eye out for the Missile Barrage proc, make sure you never overstepped the 3-stack unless you wanted to run out of mana, all the while making sure your mana cooldowns were being used effectively and your damage cooldowns being popped at the proper times, and not to forget using Evocation during the last second of Icy Veins to avoid those sodding AoE attacks.
Now I dread to say I find the Fireball rotation far more challenging …
/cut
I have no idea what your talking about (well except the dragon dentist bit) but you did make mages sound kinda interesting
Looks like it’s back to the old days. Fire = PVE. Frost = PVP. Arcane = Useless utility spec.
I guess it’s too much to ask of Blizz for anything more.
So, did I understand this post correctly? Are you suggesting to use a scorch spam +HS proc rotation?
Hey being a mage, I expected nothing less from Blizz.
@dubldeez
No, because Scorch doesn’t SCALE well (lol).
I don’t get it.
Spirit was useless to mages. Lo and behold, Blizz tweaked Molten Armor and its related glyph to make it useful! Now mages want Spirit! (Fire mages, anyway.)
Why aren’t we seeing something similar for Frost and Arcane PvE specs? Crit’s suboptimal for Arcane and Frost? Fine. Stick in Glyph of Icy Veins (or whatever) and convert crit to haste. Isn’t this why glyphs were put in the game anyway?
Would be a great way to make Arcane a viable PvE “mobility” spec, too. Something to make Evocate tick faster? Something to make ABarr pack a larger punch? (Useless to PvP, of course. Like Spirit, or something.)
Homogenizing gear is fine. But homogenizing specs defeats the purpose of talent points, and making certain specs useless defeats Blizz’s whole “make every spec viable for everything” ethos.
Is there any class who doesn’t have a PVP, PVE and NEVER SPEC THIS SPEC setup?
Warriors are ARMS/PROT, ARMS, and FURY respectively. Much like mages Fury underwent a retooling and then got Nerfed to high heaven…for what? Why unnerve a spec only to spec it into the ground.
Blizzard has been doing this lately and I agree sometimes they make changes just for the sake of making changes.
I suspect somewhere deep within the blizzard compound there are three “Hats O Change” and basically whenever there is a birthday in the developers department 3 developers get to grab a card from each hat. (the birthday developer obviously getting his choice)
The first hat is filled with all the skills in the game
The Second is full of things they can do to a skill
The third hat is full of numbers and percentages
This is how you end up with things like
Titansgrip Nerf 10%
Jugernaught nerf 5 seconds
More to the point though I very much dislike HAVING to spec a certain way to be viable. I mean most classes have very little “wiggle room” with which to work.
I mean when you get right down to it EVERY class has a BiS and an optimal spec that EVERYONE is shooting for…how unique of a game experience is that if everyone is trying to be the same?
@ Dubldeez
No, that example was simply there to show how random fire DPS is, how wildly it can fluctuate.
@ Lucy
It was suggested a loooong time ago that Mage Armor should provide a Spirit -> Haste conversion to benefit arcane and frost mages.
@ Mabd
I know, eh? It’s like those set bonuses were designed specifically to make the fire tree godly and cause the rest to suck.
@Blackthought
The state of mage DPS is actually pretty spectacular, considering how close FFB, Fire/TtW, and arcane perform in raids. In general, the dps of those three don’t vary by more than 5% when played correctly, and there are some fights that favor one spec over the other. Frost is not really competitive in PvE, but it is a solid PvP spec, so I don’t feel that’s useless either.
Ultimately, this is the goal. Yes, if you want every once of dps, you’re going to have to spec a certain way. In fact, that spec and the glyphs used may change from fight to fight. But right now, if someone is asking for a mage and you tell them you’re arcane or FFB, they don’t tell you to GTFO (assuming they aren’t terrible at the game).
Actually, this increase to crit has been something that I’ve been looking forward to for a long time. It seems that in the current tier set Blizzard has chosen to to focus more on haste than crit, as I’ve been upgrading my tier pieces and gaining spellpower but losing crit and crit damage(I really liked the 4 piece T7.5).
Playing a FFB spec I can honestly say that I get frustrated with the swings in my raids. Whatever helps fire be more stable will be amazing for me. Competing with arcane mages and bullshit hunters on a constant basis has me fluxuating from top of DPS charts to #6 or 7.
I’m just glad that the focus is away from haste this time round. My crit % has gone down 7% and damage is down 5%, Maybe this will balance out.
Anyone care to explain the scaling issues of arcane? I don’t play it so I don’t quite understand that.
@ Aethi
It’s very simple.
You know talents like “Fire Power” and “Empowered Fire”?
It’s talents like those that allow a spec to scale. Basically, as your gear gets better, your DPS gets better.
Thing is, arcane possesses lackluster talents of that type. It has talents that allow it to scale, they are simply incredibly weak in comparison to the ones fire has.
I can see what you mean when you talk about gear for a class seeming to only work for 1-2 of the trees, and being undesirable for the last tree.
Beastmasters really love crit and armor Pen. Our tier gear? Has NONE. What do Beastmasters not want? Haste. How much haste is their on tier gear? A SHIT-TON.
So yeah, I hear ya.
In all honestly, and if memory serves me right, this was the longest time period that Arcane has ever been a serious contender for top PvE DPS. At the very least, it’s a good sign of things to come that it has been viable for so long. We all know that specs ebb and flow, and I have no doubt Arcane will be back.
I’m really excited to see that FFB might be stepping back into the limelight. With the mana-efficiency and crit of FFB, the 3.2 mage will be able to use Living Bomb on more targets for more damage than any other spec.
I know I should be mourning Arcane, but I am to damn excited about Blizzard buffing up the Elementalist spec that we’ve been collectively begging for since Molten Core was coming “in the next patch”.
Welcome to the dark side. Fire magery is actually pretty fun, and this is coming from a previous arcane junkie. Still don’t like to be pigeonholed, however.
Still t8/t8.5 has way to much hit.. im 71 overcapd atm.can only be fixed with some crit wrists.and they hardly drop anywhere lol
.
Ive been always been ffb/icy veins specd.and still outdamg the focusmagic/fireball spec.get tons more crits compared with that spec.got 4*t8.4 2day so will have to test in raid 2nite with both specs to see what does best. 2200spelldamg,40% crit unbuffed,400 haste.
Doin around 5k + avg in naxx25.ud.and 4k in 10man raids.pretty reasonable with that spelldamg
Greetz rob