Arcane
- Arcane Subtlety – now reduces threat generated by all spells and effects by 5/10% and arcane spells and effects by an additional 15/30%. The dispel protection remains the same.
- Arcane Focus – now applies to all spells, instead of just arcane.
- Arcane Stability – reduced to three ranks for the same effect, and now applies to Evocation.
- Torment the Weak and Student of the Mind have swapped places in the arcane tree. Torment the Weak now only grants a 3/6/9% boost to damage (down from 4/8/12%).
- Spell Impact now also applies to frostbolt, arcane barrage and arcane missiles.
- Arcane Stability – now increases spell damage and critical strike chance by 2/4/6, up from 1/2/3%.
- Mind Mastery and Arcane Mind have both been reduced to three talent points for the same effect.
Fire
- Incineration – now also applies to Frostbolt and Ice Lance.
- Burning Determination – now also reduces the duration of stun effects and disorients by 15/30%.
- Improved Scorch – now also increases the damage dealt with Fireball, Frostfire Bolt, and Scorch by 1/2/3%.
- Impact – stun effect has been increased to 3 seconds.
- Molten Shields – in addition to it’s current effect, your Molten Armor now grants 20/40% of your resilience as critical strike rating.
- Playing With Fire – instead of increasing spell damage taken by 1/2/3%, now reduces spell damage taken by 4/7/10% as long as Molten Armor is active.
- Blazing Speed – now immediately finishes the cooldown of your Blink spell when this talent procs.
- Combustion – redesigned. Renamed Burnout. Increases your critical strike chance with fire spells by 50% while costing 20% more mana to cost. This effect lasts 15 seconds.
- Fiery Payback – now also triples the damage of Molten Armor when below 35% health.
- Firestarter – now provides an instant cast effect to Flamestrike or Scorch. If Scorch is used for this proc, it has a 100% critical strike chance.
- Burnout – renamed Combustion, and the additional mana cost effect has been removed.
- Dragon’s Breath – the area of effect of this spell has been increased to match that of a talented cone of cold spell.
Frost
- Winter’s Chill – in addition to it’s current effect, now also increases the damage dealt by Ice Lance by 10% per rank on targets of a higher level than you.
- Brain Freeze – now grants an instant cast, mana free Frostfire Bolt instead of Fireball.
Anyway, those are are my ideas for what should happen to the mage trees to try and solve our little issues.
Fireball specs currently have mana issues. As it stands now, neither Blizzard’s changes nor my ideal ones actually provide a proper fix to it, merely a bandaid.
But seriously, what was the line of thinking behind the ignite change? Did they just forget Burnout existed? I mean, c’mon! Fire mages have mana troubles… you have a talent designed to cost them more mana… it isn’t possible for this to be more obvious!
Not to mention how broken the Ignite mana return is. Considering the Replenishment nerf with this patch, it’s a very small buff (in the area of 30mp5), and that’s assuming that ignite ticks properly every 2 seconds.
Which, of course, it won’t. Let’s say a fire mage, I dunno, crits again before the first tick of Ignite happens. What happens? Well, ignite refreshes, resetting the duration, meaning the mage doesn’t get any mana.
It’s basically exactly the same problem frost mages had with replenishment.
We now know from the Mage Q&A that Blizzard is actually ok with us having to go into the arcane tree to get those talents in there.
Let’s get this straight. Most of us are not actually all that concerned with spending 15, 18 points in the arcane tree. What we’re concerned with is that the talent is so necessary to our DPS, we literally waste points to get there, and even then, it’s completely out of our control whether or not we even get the effect.
But hey. Fine. So change up the early arcane tree so it’s actually attractive to go there.
Ideally, the early tree of every tree would be attractive to every other tree, but most classes operate under the principle that one tree is good for all the others.
Consider that all shamans want a piece of the enhancement tree, all priests want some discipline, all druids need some restoration, and all warriors want arms.
Natch, a little extra threat reduction boost for fire mages (one of the very few specs in the game that actually have threat issues) while keeping arcane threat reduction the same. Allowing that hit talent be global allows for mages to have access to 6% hit from talents, if they really need it, but more importantly, it gives fireball mages access to a hit talent.
Oh yeah, and a little extra mana efficiency will help fire’s mana issues just a smidge. Not enough to be a fix, but hey, it’s a bandaid. Nothing wrong with first aid.
Torment the Weak, as you noticed, is available a little earlier. It’s been weakened a little, as it requires somewhat less investment to get. It could probably stand to be nerfed a little more, actually, so long as that extra damage is buffed up elsewhere.
In my case, I added the missing frostbolt damage to Spell Impact, beefed up a deeper arcane talen, and let Imp. Scorch increase the damage of Fireball/Frostfire Bolt/Scorch by the same amount it currently increases their crit chance.
In total, the adjustments to TtW results in a slight buff to frost and arcane damage, a tiny buff to frostfire damage, while fire damage stays the same.
Speaking of arcane, the tree is bloated. No way around that, this is fact. Trim a couple of those big talent dumps, and now the arcane mage has an additional four talent points to goof around with. Nothing huge, like boomkins and prot paladins got earlier in wrath, just a little bit of fat trimming.
The frost tree… well, I only really have a couple ideas for here. The tree itself is actually pretty damn good. Adding frostbolt to Spell Impact would help raid viability a little.
The Winter’s Chill thing is something I’ve had kicking around in my head for a while. With Winter’s Chill fully stacked, thus giving ice lance a 50% damage boost, coupled with the glyph, should get ice lance into something more than worthwhile to cast when FoF procs.
I get Blizzard’s stance that having stuff that works differently in PvP and PvE is confusing… but seriously, come now. This is an old game, with an old, highly experienced, highly knowledgeable player base. Sure, there may be new players, but they are outnumbered by the old ones.
I promise we won’t be confused.
Though some may complain we’re just getting a copy paste of paladin mechanics.
The fire tree was the most interesting to toy around with.
I struggled for a bit with buffing up the early fire tree stuff, like Burning Determination and Molten Shields, but really, a mage has to make a choice there.
Sure, a frost mage could get Burning Determination and Impact, but they’d give up silence and Torment the Weak. Sure, you could go deep enough to pick up Molten Shields, use molten armor and gain a HUGE crit increase, but you’d be, again, giving up TtW and all the stuff mage armor gives you.
Yeah, using molten armor and getting Molten Shields is going to give you something in the area of 300 critical strike rating, if not more, but you give up a lot to use it. It evens out, I think.
Also, the Combustion change wasn’t really all that imaginative. It’s basically a copy paste of Arcane Power, except it applies to only fire spells. Combustion, as is, is horribly outdated and utterly useless in today’s raiding world. Sure, it’s not a very imaginative change, but it’s still a good one.
And hey, you can’t deny the fire tree would be really fun to try in PvP if it looked like that.
Anyway, feel free to add your own thoughts, bathe in the awesome, lambast my idiotic ideas, or weep that such changes will never happen.
While we’re on the topic of changing up talents, what are your thoughts about Living Bomb, particularly the whole “cast it on yourself” school of thought that’s been kicking around for awhile? I know I’m a huge fan of fire mages literally exploding upon death, instilling a certain lurking reluctance to kill one.
I wish they’d make fire a more viable pvp build option.
There are hardly any abilities in the tree to provide survivability, you have the knockback effect of blast wave and Blazing speed is hardly something you should rely on.
I enjoy the way damage is dealt but it always feels like a ..kill or be killed in a few seconds.. kind of build, no control.
I think fiery payback should be like this:
Fiery Payback – After becoming victim to a critical strike, your next fire damaging spell will trigger ignite.
This of course does not insue your next spell crits, just that they take 40% more damage over time.
I likes it.
Also, fiery payback would obviously have to have a cooldown of 7-10 seconds or something.
Haha, had to come back to say I thought of something more creative but definatley OP:
Fiery Payback: After becoming victim to a critical strike, your next living bomb will detonate upon cast, dealing it’s total damage over time and ending explosion instantly.
It’s more creative at least!
I just logged the total damage of my living bomb in my pvp gear. It’s not OP.
I thought living bomb did more damage =\
brain freeze should fire off the fireball automatically
brain freeze should fire off the fireball automatically
OH! You’re my new favorite blogger fyi
Oh yeah, another thing I forgot to mention.
There needs to be a change to Living Bomb where it will detonate when something dies while LB is still ticking away.
@ Azryu
I really like that Fiery Payback thing, with the Ignite part.
Perhaps “this effect cannot happen more than once every six seconds”?
I’ve liked the idea of the explosive pvp fire mage since I first heard about it. I have a fire pvp spec that I’m trying out, and I’m actually pretty happy with it. I know that I have 6 seconds to live, but I’m going to make those 6 seconds count. Maybe it’s just me, but my mindset as a fire mage is the epitome of glass cannon. Yup, I’m going to die, but I’m taking all of you down with me. ^_^
Personally, I’d like to see something where you keep Living Bomb as it is now, but make a few adjustments. One, it can be cast on self. Two, if target dies before the final explosion occurs, the target erupts in an AoE that causes damage equal to the target’s remaining mana pool, and leaves a “crater” AoE on the ground that lasts for 2-3 seconds.
Im not sure what kind of cooldown it would have to be.
I really like the living bomb one, seems like a really cool burst mechanic, but yes I do like the ignite one as well.
However, the more I toil over the idea the more I’d love to see the instant Living Bomb. Thus far, I have revised the talent (in my brain) a bit more:
Fiery Payback- After becoming victim to a critical strike, your next Living Bomb you cast will detonate instantly, causing the sum of the peroidic damage and final explosion. If a living bomb currently exists on the target, casting Living Bomb will detonate the existing bomb and apply a new one.
I think it would add another level of gameplay, which would (hopefully) help contribute to fire requiring a certain finesse that could only hope to one day compare to frost.
Living Bomb could be redesigned to be really cool with just a few tweaks. These would be my changes:
Living Bomb – Now ticks once every second and overall damage increased a bit. Castable on any target. All damage dealt by this ability is now radial in addition to target damage. Both target and radial damage are improved by X% (where X is a substantial number) if the target is under the effects of Molten Armor.
There, done. Cast it on your DK partner in arenas, making the other team wary of attacking him. Cast it on your pally partner in arenas while she bubbles and charges in unharmed. Cast it on yourself in a battleground and blow up EVERYONE.
Of course, radial damage would only damage enemies like it does now, so there’d be no trouble using it in raids. Thoughts?
Living Bomb could be redesigned to be really cool with just a few tweaks. These would be my changes:
Living Bomb – Now ticks once every second and overall damage increased a bit. Castable on any target. All damage dealt by this ability is now radial in addition to target damage. Both target and radial damage are improved by X% (where X is a substantial number) if the target is under the effects of Molten Armor. (And maybe we could get a little “auto-detonate on death” action too.)
There, done. Cast it on your DK partner in arenas, making the other team wary of attacking him. Cast it on your pally partner in arenas while she bubbles and charges in unharmed. Cast it on yourself in a battleground and blow up EVERYONE.
Of course, radial damage would only damage enemies like it does now, so there’d be no trouble using it in raids. Thoughts?
Aaaaand I just posted that twice somehow >.>
All of these are really good, and mostly just shuffling what already exists to make it better!
I did notice some things that might have problems. For one, Winter’s Chill would be overwritten by Imp Shadowbolt, or even someone Scorch stacking before you could get Chill up. So having Ice lance be dependent on a buff that can be overwritten isn’t good. I like the general idea, but Winter’s Chill itself wouldn’t work.
Also Brain Freeze would have to be Fireball OR Frostfire bolt. After all, we don’t get Frostfire bolt till 75
I’d like to see the tier 1 talent points made more universal or new ones added to make it easier to access other trees.
Currently it’s difficult to find useful Tier 1 talents for anything other then your main tree with some minor exceptions.
Tier 2 talents can be slipped past easily enouth with the possible exception of the fire tree but when ever i make a build up i always find that the first tier of arcane is a hassle to get through and the first tier of the frost tree is equally anoying.
Overall the suggests above aren’t too bad but i doubt they’ll see themselfs in patch notes any time soon, then again crazy things have happend.
I really, really, really like Tryst’s idea for Living Bomb + Molten Armor, although other people may not like the fact that they’ll be losing health.
I pretty much agree with every change you wanted to see aside from Frost. Winter’s Chill would rarely be applied to 5 stacks in a raid with Imp Scorch and the Warlock crit thing I’m forgetting the name of, and like another person said FFB isn’t learned until 75.
My own version of Living Bomb would be, aside from it’s normal effect, it would grant a passive ability that upon death, the mage will explode for X fire damage (sum total of Living Bomb’s DoT + DD) to all enemies within 10 yards.
I would like to see the fireball animation changed back to the old one. A little fiery stone is not what I would imagine a fiery mage be throwing at mobs… FrostBs and FFBs have superb animation… why the sad little stone for the fire? Some designer got burnt and started hating fire?
I really dunno why is the punishment always on fire. see “Impact” Nerf.
I’d wish for a change so that there’s more reason to use Arcane Barrage in Raids.
Since there’s very little spirit in PVP gear, why not change the ABarr glyph to add damage from a % of spirit?
“While we’re on the topic of changing up talents, what are your thoughts about Living Bomb, particularly the whole “cast it on yourself” school of thought that’s been kicking around for awhile?”
—–
I know a lot of people like the idea, but I’ve never been a fan. Fire Mage AoE has centered around getting up close and personal for 4-5 years now, and it DOES NOT work. It’s the squishiest of all Mage specs and having to run close to the mobs to DB, BW, LB and possibly spam AE is not only limiting (FS 9, FS 8, Blizzard is higher damage anyway), it’s very very dangerous. Our health hasn’t scaled anything like tank health has, and we’ll usually find ourselves one-shot by a Cleave.
In my opinion Fire Mages should get a spammable ranged AoE – LB is great (though it really needs to explode on the target’s death/a fixed amount of damage like SoC does), but it has to tick for 12 seconds and while that’s happening we’re using either Flamestrike or an untalented Blizzard. Good damage, but it could easily be so much better with raid-useful AoEs in our 21- and 41-point talents.
Don’t get me wrong, I love BW and DB – they’re incredibly useful whilst soloing or in PvP, but the fact is that very few deep Fire Mages use them in raiding. There’s just no point, and those 2 talent points usually go to fill our World in Flames instead.
Any one thinks that Bliz needs to revamp Pyroblast alittle? After the AP POM Pyro nerf, Pyro is reduced to:-
1. An opener during solo questing; and
2. Used only when Hot Streak procs
For a spell that is used within a limited spectrum and very much similar to the damage of Fireball (considering cast time), I cannot help but feel that it does not deal as much dmg as it should to offset its limitations.
One idea is for Pyro to have a little 1 sec or 2 sec stun (something like impact) / 2 or 3 sec daze (something like blastwave) /disrupt focus effect will be much helpful to interrupt a certain spell cast or focus. – PVP
AND/OR
Clear out the DOT effect of Pyro and dump all the damage on the initial hit. – Raid
AND/OR
Without AP POM Pyro, is there still a need to put Pyro at such an early tier? I mean there is no reason now to get Pyro early.
I suggest swaping with Blastwave or dare I say Dragons Breath and increasing the initial burst damage by 10% / 15-20%.
My humble opinion for pure DPS casters:-
> DOTs = Warlocks
> Heavy burst damage = Mage
I hope Bliz can bring back the “FIRE IN YOUR FACE” effect of the Pryo-mage.
Glass-canon, heavy burst damage? Here we go.
Opps, left out a small bit during my cut and paste from MS Office.
“Swap Dragon’s Breath with Pyroblast” bit –
Have a direct link between Pyroblast and Hot Streak. I mean, the only reason Hot Streak is wanted is to proc off Pyroblast. So why not link them together?
If Pyro is not meant to deal 10%, 15%, 20% more damage than what it currently has, then let the dmg enhancement be in Hot Streak.
Dragon’s Breath and Blastwave proccing off an instant Flamestrike? WTF! Please Bliz, I implore you to remove that! An AOE within AOE within AOE… Oh wait AOE is now balanced throughout most classes? Thanks GC.
Fire is just not keeping up with its time and change.
Havent read all the comments casue I am at work, however your changes to the fire tree seem to all reflect around PvP. I hate PvP, I think changing anything PvE related in this game to accomodate PvP combat is stupid. Your propsed changes would destroy a Fire spec’s viability in a raiding environment. Unless you meant that those talents only applied when flagged PvP…
If that were the case then sure do what you want, if not I really hope nobody at Blizz reads this and says “Yeah thats awesome!” Cause then I would have to hunt you down… =)
@ Underbridge
Not sure why your comment that the suggestions herein by fellow mages on fire are “seem to all reflect around PvP” and “propsed changes would destroy a Fire spec’s viability in a raiding environment”.
Could you elaborate, please?
I guess the focus on fire is the problems that it currently has-
1. PVP viability is nuts because (a) no survivability (b) dmg output is crappy to offset the lack of survivability.
2. Fire Raid dmg is nuts because (a) we are glass canons who have been reduced to glass without our canons. Plate, Leather, Mail now have canons. In fact bigger canons. Oh did i mention the Plate (DK & Pallys), Leather (Hunters) and Mail (Shaman) canons need not really stand there to cast for 3 secs for main nukes?
3. Arcane can keep up with dmg with the Plate, Leather and Mail canons on raids and can survive a PVP fight. Proper management of mana, use of gems, evo, dun see a problem.
4. Frost mages are one of the best fighters, if not most irrating one, in PVP. Raid viable – proper combos and management of CD plus guaranteed TTW. Dont see much of a problem.
Once again, as put forth by fiery fanatic Jack, bring back the fiery IN YOUR FACE mage. Please…. Bliz give us our dmg back and not reduce us to some clowns who wear robes and provide food in the hat trick.
“WTS portals to Dalaran” “Oh now u have rings that can teleport you to Dalaran…?”… “WTS conjured food!” – Mage
That will teach me for reading a blog after a 12hr shift, I apperently skimmed right past the “Also” in most of those talents =p. Like I said though I don’t PvP so how a fire spec fairs in that realm doesn’t really bother me. I actually want to go back to a Fireball mage but so far my gear can’t support the higher Hit cap to go down the arcane tree. Thus I am Frostfire ATM which might be why I would only be cought dead in a BG.
I just went through the comments again and noticed Malon’s comment about BW and DB not getting used in raids. They may not be part of my regular rotation but I make sure to have them handy (Bound to my mouse wheel) as I usually position myself near the healers, I find that there is at least 1-2 mobs in raids that can find there way past an initial pull and start scurrying to the Healers. Thats when mage tanking (in the loosest form of the word) comes in handy, using BW, DB, CoC, and Frost Nova to kite mobs and allow the tanks to taunt them back if you haven’t gotten them to the tanks already.
It is a very handy tool, and although some mobs wont get pushed back they still slow down and allow you to kite. I could probably drop them for higher DPS but a raids DPS is zero if your healers die.
I’m the same Underbridge, I’ve only got 1/3 World in Flames because I like to have DB and BW. It’s rare that they’re useful in raids – nuking Scrapbots on XT is the most use I’ve found for them in a boss fight. I really like the spells, but they’re more suited for 5-mans than raid bosses.
I actually filled out my fire talents, I sacraficed Frost chaneling instead. More threat higher mana cost but whatever. My cloak has Subtlty and I have mana gems and evocate =)
The whole point about fire spec is that it’s random. 1 moment it’s a measly 3k fireball, the next 10k fireball-10k procced pyro I the same second. Fire could be useful, but not with the unpredictable elements.