Common specs
Fire: Something along the lines of 18/53/0.
You need 18 points in the arcane tree (deep enough for 3/3 Torment the Weak) and 51 points in the fire tree (for Living Bomb). The details are largely up to you. Some mages skip Imp. Scorch, some mages get 2/3 in Arcane Meditation for a 20/51/0 build.
Frostfire: Something along the lines of 0/53/18.
Again, the details are largely up to you. Living Bomb is needed, and you also need to get Ice Shards from the frost tree. Getting Piercing Ice, Icy Veins and Frost Channeling is also highly recommended.
See my detailed guides to specific talent trees for further information to choose your talents.
For both specs, Combustion is a very useless cooldown. Highly recommended to not take it.
Abbreviations
FFB – Frostfire Bolt, compare FB for Fireball.
HS – Hot Streak, that proc that gives you an instant Pyroblast.
LB – Living Bomb, the end tree talent for fire.
Spell Rotation
Fire and Frostfire mages have essentially identical spell rotations. Just replace the word “nuke” with Fireball for Fire mages, and Frostfire Bolt for Frostfire mages.
As with most casters in today’s world… of warcraft, fire/frostfire mages do not have a proper spell rotation, merely spell priorities. These are those:
Scorch as necessary to keep the debuff up at 5 stacks. Try to refresh as little as possible. Casting Scorch will reduce your effective damage; the less you can cast it the better. Refresh no more often than every 27 seconds.
If you are using the Glyph, you can afford to refresh as close as you can get to the thirty second mark. The glyph will immediately put up all five stacks of the debuff, so letting it fall off is not nearly as bad as it has ever been in the past.
If you have a Warlock or frost mage to keep the debuff up, thus absolving you of the need to cast Scorch yourself, so much the better.
If there are multiple fire/frostfire mages, the one with the lowest DPS should be relegated to keeping up the debuff.
The second thing you need to continually refresh is Living Bomb. LB is a serious source of damage, it needs to have as high an uptime as you can give it. The debuff itself lasts for 12 seconds, try and put a new one up exactly as the old one explodes.
Thirdly, you should be hitting Pyroblast every time Hot Streak lights up. Don’t cancel your current cast to throw off a Pyroblast, just make sure you use it next cast.
With those three requirements met, just spam your nuke at all other times.
You should never, EVER interrupt a nuke cast in order to do any of the above.
Trash
For greater DPS on trash mobs, don’t use your boss rotation. You need to treat trash a different way, depending on how fast your raid can take trash down.
If you’re using AoE, just spamming Blizzard will yield very good results. Fireball specs can produce strong numbers by rotating Flame Strikes and Blizzards, though it’s usually better to not bother with Flame Strike. Frostfire mages should never use an AoE other than Blizzard.
Of course, you could always just put Living Bomb on everything… Pick your targets wisely for LB. In order for it to be worth the GCD, the target needs to live at least 12 seconds to explode. Don’t choose the initial kill target in a pack, for instance, it won’t live long enough to explode.
Note that Blizzard benefits from Burnout!
If dealing with single targets, you need to remember one key fact: your nuke has a travel time. If mobs are dropping very quickly, bear in mind that you do have two spells you can use to get damage from you to the mob very quickly.
Scorch can be used; while it does deal less damage than your main nuke, it casts faster and has an instant travel time. If a mob is going to be dead in the next two seconds, it’s better to cast a Scorch that will deal some damage rather than a FFB that will deal no damage.
By the same token, Fireblast is a very strong spell for these situations too. Use it as a sort of final spell on a trash mob to get off that last burst of damage.
Managing Cooldowns
The fire tree has far less long term cooldowns to manage than the other two trees. But there are still some, and thanks to Molten Fury are just as important.
Really, all you need to manage in addition to universal cooldowns (trinket, Mirror Image) is Icy Veins. As with all cooldowns, you want to use it as often as you can.
With just one caveat.
Molten Fury kicks in when your target is below 35% health. At that point, all the damage you deal is amplified by a further 12%. You want to make absolutely sure every cooldown you have is ready to go at some point when the boss is below 35% health.
If the boss fight is only going to be two minutes long, wait for the boss to get low before blowing your cooldowns. Don’t use them early, as you can only use them once. Make it count.
On the other hand, of course, if a boss fight is long enough to allow you to use your cooldowns multiple times, use ‘em! Just make sure you use them early enough that they’ll be ready to go again when Molten Fury becomes active.
In the same vein, if you are going to Evocate in a fight, make sure you’ve done so before the 35% mark. Evocating at the tail end of the fight will cripple your DPS.
There’s really not much to learn here, due to fire’s inherent lack of cooldowns.
Glyphs
There are four glyphs you should be interested in are as follows: Glyph of Fireball/Frostfire, Molten Armor, Living Bomb, and Improved Scorch. Ideally, you should be using the first three, and not Imp. Scorch.
Living Bomb is the most important glyph. Never, ever drop it in favor of something else.
Avoid Glyph of Scorch if you can. If you simply must be on Scorch duty, replace either Glyph of Molten Armor or your core nuke, whichever is giving you the least benefit. (If you have low spirit values, drop the Molten Armor glyph.)
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See any mistakes? Got something to add? Behold ze comments section!
Some reports on EJ state that LB crits ARE consuming Combustion charges. If this is confirmed, it seems that Combustion becomes more or less worthless (some have already dropped the talent).
Also worth noting the “Ulduar Impact” on specs. Early reports state the following:
FFB (0/53/18) is the easiest, most consistent spec. It is guaranteed to last on the long fights, and will put out solid DPS even if your fight knowledge is lacking.
Arcane (57/3/11) is tricky now, as timing Evocations is crucial. This ties into knowing the fights; in turn Arcane mages have struggled a little (or a lot) on fights they are new to. However, it seems that once fight knowledge is in hand that there are oppurtunities to snap off Evocations in any fight successfully. Also note that not all AoE effects in some boss fights are incurring a knockback penalty, while other fights are practically requiring some Icy Veins knockback protection when Evocating.
TtW/FB (18-20/51-53/0) is rather hurt by the AoE/movement mechanics in Ulduar. Even though it doesn’t Evocate as much as Arcane, they are still crucial to the spec’s mana, and this spec doesn’t benefit from having Icy Veins to protect from knockback or a giant pile of Haste (that Arcane normally gears for) to speed up the process. While this spec has the highest theoretical damage potential, it’s not certain if this spec is viable on a number of fights in Ulduar (specifically since its mana cycle is degenerative; it’s actually a more mana-fragile spec than Arcane in some ways).
The general thought process is this:
If you’re TtW/FB right now, ensure that your second spec is FFB. You might need that spec for mana-intensive fights, or ones where Evocation is difficult/impossible.
If you’re Arcane right now, it’s probably best you stick with it and take your lumps as you learn fights. You /could/ switch to FFB, but you’d have to change lots of gear (from emphasizing haste to emphasizing crit) to do so, and it’s probably not worth the trouble (unless you have that gear lying around, of course).
If you’re FFB, cool. Probably a good idea to set your second spec to TtW/FB though for the easier fights, or at least to do the dual-spec Focus Magic cheat/trick before it’s hotfixed into oblivion.
In my personal opinion, I feel Arcane will actually come out as the best spec in Ulduar, but will have to be piloted by someone who knows the fights well enough to place Evocates correctly, and knows the spec well enough to adjust for mana concerns.
FFB will continue to be very, very good, and will probably be the top choice in Ulduar if only because it’s the easiest, and will still be putting out good deeps.
Unless a change to Evocation is made (or other drastic changes to mana), I’m not sure TtW/FB is good for Ulduar. It’s certainly fine on a number of fights, but without Evocation the spec falls like a house of cards. At least as Arcane you can take a low rotation and build yourself back up for the next Evo oppurtunity in 2 minutes. With FB you gotta wait /four/. Ouch.
One more funny thing worth mentioning: It’s been found that if you spend more than 4 seconds per minute moving on a fight, that the Tuskarr’s Vitality foot enchant is worth more DPS than Icewalker, especially for Arcane specs. The extra movement speed gets you where you need to be faster, and it outweighs the 12 crit on Icewalker. If you really, REALLY need the hit though, keep Icewalker on.
Thank you! Perfect timing and extremely helpful for me, I just specced my alt to FFB for the first time and I am clueless. I’m getting less DPS than I did as frost and having a lot of trouble managing all the cooldowns, but I found a couple of useful tricks here (I had no idea Blizzard was still the one I should use…).
Right now I have the Glyph of Imp. Scorch, but a guildie just discovered Living Bomb. Given my noobishness, do you figure I should change them now and hope I can keep Scorch up properly, or just wait a while until I get used to the spec better?
(My DPS is about 1500 on a dummy, timing the DoTs, but it drops to 1100 in instances – depressing!
)
Looking back on the first week of Ulduar raiding, FFB is ahead of fireball for me. Fireball still tops dps but managing mana can be real pain while you’re still learning all the other stuff that goes on during the fights. Being able to pick up Blastwave/Dragon’s Breath with FFB is also handy for moving adds about when required (XT a little bit, maybe Ignis if something weird is happening).
I’d also recommend that if you do go a fireball spec you make sure to pick up all the spirit/regen talents you can manage in arc – you trade the relative entertainment of managing icy veins usage in FFB for the relative irritation of managing mana in regular fireball specs.
Anyone else specced deep frost for handling the Ignis adds? Whee!
Oh just to add: Ensidia’s mages seemed to be specced fireball in at least one of their specs for their full-clear this week
I’ve been FFB spec since the moment I hit 80, and I’m surprised to hear that Blizzard is considered the only AoE to focus on with trash for FFB’ers. I used to do a Blizzard spam and managed to hold about even on the meters with other dps’ers on trash pulls, but when I changed to a rotation of Living Bomb, Flamestrike (rank 9), Flamestrike (rank 8), and THEN Blizzard spam I couldn’t be touched – dps went up by a huge amount. For trash pulls that only last a few seconds of course Blizzard puts the damage out there faster, but if they’ll last longer than one or two Blizzard spams I’ve always found opening with Flamestrikes to be superior (use two different ranks because the ground DoTs stack).
@ Niles
In 3.1, Blizzard also benefits from Burnout, (it used to be the only damaging spell that didn’t), boosting Blizzard crits into the stratosphere as far as AoE damage go.
@ Wiles
Combustion already isn’t a very good talent; if that’s the case, I can see it removed from fire raiding builds.
Then again, if it is the case, it’s a bug that Blizz will hopefully fix sooner rather than later.
@ Jen
If you can’t depend on someone else to keep the debuff up, then you need to do so. That 5% crit is invaluable for raid wide DPS, and you should strongly consider keeping it up even if you are the only caster present.
FFB spec relies very heavily on crit. The more of it you have, the better.
Either have the glyph of Imp. Scorch and keep the debuff up at all times, or don’t and never bother with it.
Trying to keep it up glyphless will do terrible things to your DPS. Having to start each fight with Scorchx5 will be ruinous for you.
Also, rather than measuring your DPS for the entire instance run, try just measuring it for specific parts.
If you use, say, Recount, reset the data right before a boss is pulled and measure it for that fight only.
@ ZM/Wiles
It seems to me the favoured fireball spec is, or is becoming, 20/51/0, mostly to stack Pyromaniac and Arcane Meditation together.
Especially considering how hostile Ulduar is to Evocates…
Thanks, glad to see Scorch x 5 isn’t supposed to be part of my rotation. I’ll probably just get the new glyph and never bother with Scorch again. On another note, my DPS went up 1000 when I figured out that I hadn’t learnt the new ranks of the fire spells. Yes, major fail.
Ahh, now that explanation makes more sense to me. I’ll see if I can run some tests on our next Naxx 25 run, since now I’m really curious to see how the numbers play out. Looks like my AoE rotation just got simplified, even though I will miss the old one – something about stacking Flamestrikes and having two ground DoTs burning simultaneously with Blizzard (filling my screen with many pretty numbers) was addictive, haha. Thanks for the explanation Euripedes!
Out of all the specs which is the one that draws the least amount of aggro?
I have been struggling with aggro a lot lately since i went 20/51/0. I love the spec and the dmg i do is brilliant, but I suspect our tanks just cant cope. Last nite in Uldar I had casted LB, Scorch and one fireball with my Mirror Images up and I still stole aggro.
Tool them a while to give me Viligance so I would rather try something else (just pleaaaaaaaase not frost!)
Is FFB spec worth it? Have a look at my gear if u wanna http://www.wow-heroes.com/index.php?zone=eu&server=Lightbringer&name=Brethless
)
(Only site i can access at work
I have plenty of other gear to drop the hit tho, since i used to be arcane.
You say that FFB relies heavily on crit, but I read it was hit and then crit second. yes/no??
I’m a long time melee who just got their mage to 80 and went FFB. I’ve read that maybe I should have went arcane/fire or arcane/frost until hit capped and then changed to FFB. Yes/no? I have about 320 hit right now and 18% crit. I guess this also means that all gems and enchants should be for crit or hit until capped and not SP?
Thanks for cutting through the BS (and I don’t mean blacksmithing). I look on EJ, but all I find are calculations. Many of us like know the basics so we can then look at the calculation/theory and maybe fine tune for our situation.
Just to echo Melissa here: as another melee playing a caster, I can say guides like this are worth 10 EJ. I don’t give a damn about theorycrafting, I just want to learn the basics so I can make my decisions from there.
And @Mellisa: 320 hit is too much for a raid with the ideal team (i.e. moonkin/shadow priest and draenei), so you’re actually overcapped on hit. I think you only need 282 or something like that (or 300ish without moonkin/spriest). I’ve been told I need about 30% crit to be effective as FFB (fire crit, that is – I never even noticed I get a separate stat for fire :-s) and with some heroics/badges/Naxx 10 gear I’m on 29% ish so it shouldn’t be very hard to get.
STACK SPIRIT!
O.K… maybe not. Maj the fierce went FB/TtW when 3.1 hit. She’s at 14% hit, and pretty much is only raiding 25 man, so she’s more or less hit capped.
Dint know the blizzard thing. /DOH
Anyway… am I crazy, or does glyphed LB now proc Ignite?
Fire is sooo pretty
You know you’ve arrived when the MT in the 25 man throws his vigiliance on you.
And ah… Melvin is fire at heart. He refuses to play lesser trees. So he copied my spec the other day. Took out playing with fire to get blastwave and dragon’s breath.
He has no +hit. Sorta like the wow version of the guy who claimed at his rape trial that he took a shower right after to protect himself from aids.
“I did not have resistance relations with that mob!”
I finally got a hold of the Glyph of Living Bomb on my server. Set me back by 180g. Imagine my surprise when after running OS I inspected my damage meter, just to find out that none of the 44 LB ticks critted. Bug? I don’t know. Has anyone else observed this?
@ Brethless
If you’re tanks are having hard times keeping aggro, it’s actually arcane that produces the least amount of threat (excluding frost, anyways).
Arcane can reduce their threat by 40% with talents, where as fire can only reduce it by 10%.
@ Melissa
It’s always hit > crit, until hit capped.
Fire based specs are merely more dependent on having high amounts of crit than the other two trees.
For instance, if a fire mage is given the choice between 40 crit and 40 haste, the extra crit should always be chosen, whereas both frost and arcane mages would choose the haste.
I hope that makes more sense
Bah, going to go back and add an Abbreviation section.
Seems like the right thing to do.
Glyph of Living bomb is the best DPS glyph atm for FB/FFB builds. It gives you about the same DPS MA and FB glyphs give combined. And the one you drop to get Imp Scorch if you need it badly depends on how much spirit do you have fully raidbuffed. You need 672 spirit for Glyph of Molten Armor to equal Glyph of Fireball. It’s 231 spirit from items, assuming you have 2\3 Student of the Mind. If you have more – switch fireball glyph, less – MA one. (math: http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t42476-optimal_set_fb_ttw_item_discussion/p12/#post1199482).
Also, combustion really sucks now. Get 2\3 Student of the Mind in FB/TtW build.
“Just remember to let it explode before refreshing it.” – You cannot refresh LB before its explosion.
Not counting that mistakes – rather good casual guide ^^
@Melissa: You might want to check out “Gear Guidelines” on this blog from January 20. The short version: if you’re gearing up pre-raid as FFB spec, you should value, on a point-for-point basis, spellpower over +hit until you get up into the 1600-1700 SP range, then hit becomes as important or more important, until it’s capped. After that, go spellpower again over haste or crit. If you’re over 3000 spellpower, feel free to prioritize haste or crit over more raw spellpower, you’ve earned it
As others have pointed out, the point at which you’re “hitcapped” depends in part on who you’re raiding/instancing with. Other classes and/or races can help to lower your cap. If you don’t count on any help from others, and you’re not Draenei yourself, you’ll need about 367 hit rating, assuming you talented Precision.
On a *percentage-by-percentage* basis, the relative values of hit/haste/crit are a different story, crit is probably king in that case, all the more so because FFB spec is so crit-intensive, and the presence of instant-cast spells — Living Bomb and Hot-Streak-proc’ed Pyroblast — in the rotation/priority-list dilute the benefit of haste. But crit has the least favorable rating-to-percentage ratio and moreover, the gear “budgets” are usually based more on ratings than on percentages (except for spellpower, of course, which doesn’t have a rating, per se, just a flat amount, the value of which, on a percentage basis, varies depending on how much spellpower you already have). That’s why there’s the paradox of crit rating being the least attractive stat for gearing up with a crit-intensive spec…
Don’t forget also, that Intellect and (now) Spirit also contribute a little to your crit. I use the RatingsBuster addon and it helps show those sorts of things in a very helpful way. Don’t make the mistake of overvaluing those stats, though: they help a little, not a lot.
Thanks for the info.
I just went from a frost spec to FFB spec as per some other users. (I still have a 71 point Frost for solo’ing… good times!)
I didn’t quite realize that FFB was more crit focused, as I’m still geared/gemmed as per my frost spec. I’m just over hit capped at 373 (with precision)… guess I should balance some of that stuff out for more crit now!
Also, I’m too cheap to pay for the LB glyph right now, so I’ll stick with my Imp. Scorch. As I’m usually in a variety of groups, probably good to keep that Imp Scorch for now anyway. Been in 25 mans where I’m either the only mage or I’m one of many. So, yeah… there ya go.
/ramble
Argh, as hard as I tried, I can’t resist nitpicking “If there are multiple fire/frostfire mages, the one with the lowest DPS should be relegated to keeping up the debuff.”.
Actually, that should be: the one with the lowest *non-burst* DPS should be relegated to keeping up the debuff.
Theoretically, you could have 2 Fire/FFB Mages, one of which has higher overall DPS, but only because of the bursted “Use:” abilities of their epic trinkets, Mixology-boosted potions, Troll Berserking, etc. Outside of their burst intervals, their DPS might be lower, so for maximum raid DPS over the whole fight they should probably be the ones Scorch’ing during those times.
[...] Raiding as Fire/Frostfire @ CriticalQQ As Alouette closes in on 80, she’s beginning to set her eye on raiding… but seeing as I have never run a real instance on her, I need serious help learning what’s important to a raiding Fire mage. Euripedes has some great information for a little spark like me. [...]
Long time reader, new poster. I am a Noob 80 mage (Enfurno on Bladefist) that prefers to play frost and has done so most of the way to 80. I am now getting ready to begin the long road to raid preparation and was looking for a little help. With patch 3.2 live I was wondering if you could please answer a couple of quick questions regarding builds and mechanics:
1. Is FFB 0/53/18 still worth being specced into? I read a lot from “Theory Crafters” that FB/TtW 20/51 (I think) and Arcane 57/3/11 is now the way to go. What are your thoughts on the Flamestrike (Full Rank), Flamestrike (Rank 8), Blizzard combo for AoE trash? Is there significantly more damage done by using this rotation? I know there are many “Theory Crafters” out there who suggest this (I am not one of them) but has anyone (like you
) done any ingame comparisons? I don’t believe it to be a big deal to set up a one button keystroke to do this combo but spamming Blizzard does cover a little more area and would appear to be a little more beneficial by keeping the mobs slowed down.
2. Now that I am 80 can you recommend the most BENEFICIAL dual spec? I will still be questing 3 1/2 zones for the gold and achievements other than that I will be running heroics, Naxx, ToC, and Ulduar with my guild. I was thinking FFB 0/53/18 and FB/TtW 20/51 or maybe FFB 0/53/18 and Frost/TtW 20/0/51.
Thank you very much for your time and thank you very much for the wonderful site.
Regards,
Enfurno
Hi
First of all ,great site,been loads of help to me!
And on a more serious note:
Im a FFB(0/53/18) specced mage,unbuffed i have 2015sp,30,35% crit,14.60% hit and a 462/14.06% haste rating.
I have all the correct glyphs aswell.
I would just like some advice/pointers on if i should stay this spec or change to the straight fireball spec.Or if i should be looking at increasing crit/haste etc for FFB.
Im doing 3.5k dps in ulduar 10man and Totc 10man in FFB spec.
I would greatly appreciate any input/advice.
Thanks inadvance
Met