There’s really nothing interesting going on.
There’s been no mage relevant news in days and days, no new mechanic changes, not even a hint that the problems this class is facing has even been acknoledged.
I guess there’s Shattering Throw? Sure, let’s talk about that.
Shattering Throw is a new warrior ability that allows them to remove an invulnerability effect. Normally, the spell ability deals damage and reduces armor by 20%. But if the target is affected by an immunity, it removes it instead (5 min cooldown).
Now I know what you’re thinking. “HOLY GOD ALMIGHTY MY ICE BLOCK! /wrists”. Am I close?
Relaaaax. It’s not that bad. An ability like this won’t have much of an effect for 5v5 and 3v3 arena teams. There might be some initial shock when teams first encounter this ability, but strategies will evolve and soon this will simply be another tool to counter in a fight.
2v2 mages are getting shafted, of course, but hey, even that doesn’t matter too much. Mages aren’t exactly doing so hot in the 2v2 bracket; neither are warriors, for that matter.
Look at it this way. This ability is aimed squarely at Paladins. Consider that a Paladin can only Divine Shield every 5 minutes, and a warrior can automatically dispel it… every 5 minutes.
Mages use Ice Block for two things: a temporary PvP aggro drop and a total self cleanse. Shattering Throw will have no effect on the latter, and teams will simply need to be able to react faster to the former in order to keep the mage alive.
A buff to warriors, for sure. A little bit of a nerf to mages, for sure. I hope this means Blizzard finally scraps that stupid Hypothermia thing.
I mean, I can understand why they introduced the mechanic in the first place (I totally just lied), I think we’re at a position now where we can get rid of the damn debuff.
If not now, then at least consider getting rid of Hypothermia when Ret Pallies, DKs, and Shamans get the same ability, mk? (It’ll happen, my alphabet soup told me so.)
What’s that? You’re an arcane mage and can’t Ice Block twice?
Oh.
Hrm.
Maybe the warriors will spontaneously go blind?
Ok, seriously though. Are warriors really in such bad shape in PvP that they need an immunity dispel?
Fine, I get it. Paladins need a nerf, and apparently mages are just collateral damage. I’m not bitter at all. Nope. Not even a little. I really need to get this whole lying to my readers thing looked at.
On a somewhat more positive note, I wonder if this applies to all invulnerable effects, not just the traditional ones?
I mean, Anti-Magic Shell, for an Unholy DK, is an invulnerability effect. They can’t be hit with any magic damage or effects (immune!). Maybe a Paladin’s Blessing of Freedom counts too?
“Invulnerability” might not even mean “Immunity”. Blizzard’s been known to use tricky language from time to time. Invulnerability could mean a BM hunter’s Beastial Wrath. They’re “invulnerable” to movement impairing effects and fear, technically speaking.
What else is new…
I got tier 7.5 gloves the other day? Hit exalted with Wyrmrest Accord and got the 4th best boots in-game for 22g? I dunno, that sounds boring… Hodir quests still suck.
Uhm… Spirit is still horribly pointless, frost DPS still sucks donkey testicles, fire PvP… a HA! There’s something I can talk ever so briefly about!
Arcane and Frost, while both viable for PvP, definitely have their own distinctive flavors.
Both can be mobile, though arcane is way better at it. Both can control their opponents, though frost is way better at it.
Frost’s defenses revolve around absorbing or mitigating the attacks that get thrown at it. Picture it as the heavily armored knight on the battlefield; an arrow to the shoulder is met with a “clunk” sound.
Arcane’s defenses are for more tuned to flat out avoiding attacks. Picture it as the ninja on the battlefield, wearing mere cloth but able to dodge nearly everything thrown at it.
So where does fire fit in? It was mentioned in a comment before that fire’s niche could be that of the unnattractive target.
Picture fire as a somewhat armored knight, except his gear is covered in poisonous spikes. Also he has dysentery, AIDS and leprosy.
Fire mages already have/had this sort of going for them. On live, they currently have:
- Blazing Speed – 10% chance when hit by ranged or melee to dispel all movement impairing effects and increase movement speed by 50% for 8 sec.
- Impact/Molten Shields synergy – 10% chance when struck with any attack to stun the attacker for 2 sec.
Fire mages are losing that last one (/tear), but are gaining another random proc. This one has a 10% chance on hit to disarm the attacker. Once again, this applies to both melee and ranged.
It isn’t much, but melee players and hunters run the risk that, by attacking you, they end up horribly gimping themselves and/or allowing you to run away, dispelling all of their snares in the process.
It makes sense to capitalise and expand on this, don’t you think?
It’s definitely worth some thought.
/thinks
[...] rest is posted here: I Have Nothing to Say (I Lied) March 12th, 2009 | Category: 1, Block, Defense, Dodge, Hell, Hit, Nerf, QQ, Shamans, Warriors, [...]
God you sound incompetent about class balance there. You keep saying paladins. STOP. I am a ret paladin. Mages are better represented in every arena bracket than us. The stupid damn holy paladins are ruining this for everyone. And if you think you have it bad with your little side move iceblock, my greatest ability that so much has been balanced around is being nerfed again because of a class I have never played, holy paladin.
Less QQ, more pew pew. Other people are getting screwed ten times over by this ability.
Pay careful attention.
Mage. This is a player class.
Retribution. This is not a class, it is a talent tree.
Holy. This is not a class, it is also in fact, a talent tree.
I could go on but I think I just lost the will to live…
Yes, warriors are in that bad of a state in PvP currently. If you aren’t prot and don’t have an amazing healer (or 2+) behind you, you are simply fodder atm in all areas of pvp (Arena, BG’s, and WG).
It’s a nice tool for warriors and may give teams a reason to use one instead of the rogues and hunters they have mostly been replaced with on many teams for the healing debuffage.
Part of me is amused about warriors having problems in PvP. It wasn’t all that long ago that Paladins were all but shunned from PvP (regardless of spec) AND PvE (if spec’d into Ret).
The other part of me sympathizes with the Warriors for the exact same reason. I was on the receiving end of PvP encounters where there was absolutely NOTHING I could do to win the fight.
Buff the Warrior.
Nerf the Paladin.
Doesn’t matter to me so long as I continue to have fun. And fun for me is having the CHANCE to fight back. I have a feeling those warriors feel the same way.
Idk… Ret Palys vs Mages aren’t difficult.
I’m a Arcane Mage and can’t pass 1440s.
A really problems in arena? Oh..
Let me see:
1º – Resto Shammys == Send a heal on target and Run… transform into Wolf and run… run behind to column or box and just stay there until your friend take damage… its really boring while my mana going down.
2º – Holy Priests == Send a heal and run… mana burn 3 times and send a heal and run… do i need to talk more?
3° – Resto Druids == hit run.. hit run.. hit run… oh.. forgot.. hit run and Ciclone…
4° – Holy Paly’s == Stay in middle while has life… and when you think you can kill him, he uses bubble… and what? begin to run around columns and boxes..
…
2v2 for mage… just with a rogue.. and where can i get one? Idk… my friends dont play with.
…
;(
This is much more of a nerf to mages than paladins.
A Pally can run around behind a pillar while DS’d. On my Priest, its far harder to land a Mass Dispel vs a target that can run around and even DPS/heal themselves while doing so than it is to remove Ice Block. Granted, the mechanic isnt the same as Warrior Shattering, but if you control the Mage’s healer, they’re stuck out in the open for you to leisurely do whatever you want to them, with probably less than full HP.
If the big problem is Divine Shield, why aren’t we seeing further nerfs to it directly? Lowered duration, perhaps, or apply the damage redux to heals as well.
My guess is that Blizz wants to make warriors more attractive, and by doing it this way, they’re killing two birds with one stone. Seems a bit ham-fisted to me, as (unless the effect applies to ALL immune effects and not just DS/Ice Block, as mentioned) its desirability is proportional to the number of paladins and mages you’re likely to face. If all classes are supposed to be equally viable for pvp …
Melee and ranged. Does that also include casters? If we were to get disarmed, our Spell Damage would go down at least 300-400 points in the process, making it harder for us to hit for the duration of the process.
I know there is the melee guys reading this rolling their eyes at us, but if we loose precious spellpower, we loose precious damage points! Loosing that 300-400 means we could have hit you with an extra 200 damage to have killed you…..
*shrug* Just a caster p.o.v. from this.
And if this were to happen to a ROGUE, they wouldn’t be able to do hardly anything to you? Correct?
@ kudia
I find it amusing that you refer to a mage’s most important defensive cooldown ability as a “little side move.”
One could argue Frost Nova, if they really wanted to. All I’m saying is that there’s a damn good reason why there weren’t any successful mage PvP specs outside of the frost tree until Ice Block became a base ability.
@ Chu
More and more, Ice Block is showing it’s age. At least we have dispel protection now.
@ random/dargol
It’s kinda weird, you know? Warriors have never really been in a place where they were found lacking in a PvP atmosphere.
I blame the Death Knights >.>
@ Lucy
Ham fisted? More like Buffalo fisted.
It seems to me that this is the type of change that would come out of the following scenario:
The developers are sitting around a table, attempting to brainstorm ideas. They struggle to come up with a non-idiotic idea.
Then, one of them comes up with an idea so flawless, so elegant, that there is mass cheering and they all go out for lunch!
By the time they get back to the office, none of them remember what the idea was.
So they have this thing instead.
@ Rosalyne
“Spells” don’t count as melee or ranged. A ranged attack is specifically from a ranged weapon, i.e. a rogue using a throwing weapon or a hunter using basically anything.
Also, I don’t believe that disarming a caster actually does anything. Disarming just prevents that weapon from being used; it doesn’t stop the stats on the weapon from applying.
Though it would be highly interesting if it did work that way…
“I am a ret paladin. Mages are better represented in every arena bracket than us.”
SK-Gaming tracks top 100 rated teams in each and every battlegroup worldwide. Here’s some info.
http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/player/2/
In the top 2v2 teams: Ret paladins are 5.1% of all specs. Ret-heavy hybrids are 11% of all specs. So that’s nearly 1/6 of the top 100 2v2 players are at least 50% spec’ed into Ret.
Mages of any spec represent 0.9% of the top 100 2v2 players.
http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/player/3/
In the top 3v3 teams: hey, look, mages! Frost mages are 6.6% of the top 3v3 players. Oh but wait. Ret + Hybrid (which is a ret-heavy spec) are 9.2%. Mages overall are 8.9%, so all mages are outnumbered by just ret paladins.
http://www.sk-gaming.com/arena/player/5/
In the top 5v5 teams … frost is again 6.8%, compared to ret + ret-hybrid 8.3%. All mages are just 8.8% of the top 100 5v5 players, so they do barely beat out ret-loving pallies by a smidgeon.
So paladins who enjoy Ret are better represented than the only decent mage spec in every single bracket, and outnumber all mages in 2 of 3 bracket sizes.
And paladins can also respec if they want to succeed, while they wait on buffs for ret. Mages have to reroll. Holy representation:
2v2: Holy = 12.5% of top players, #2 position (Unholy DK #1)
3v3: Holy = 13.5% of top players, #2 position (SV hunters #1)
5v5: Holy = 12.5% of top players, #1 position.
Sorry to drop like facts and figures on top of your random assertion of fail.
I like you concepts about Fire Mages… admittedly I don’t Arena, but I do get tired of going down so quick.
I would love a little something more…
Maybe that “immense fiery boulder” (pyroblast) could encase the opponent in a ball of flame, inflicting damage and preventing movement. Sure make it a low chance… and let’s face it, you aren’t going to cast it unless it’s instant… or near to instant.
How about a bit of Fiery Payback, +20% damage to opponent. Things look bad enough anyway, so reduce incoming damage by 20% and increase outgoing damage by some %.
New Improved Fire Blast (and not just an icon): How about on a successful disarm, that the cooldown on Fire Blast is reset.
Master of Elements: If we are the Master of the Elements, how about letting us control them. Incoming elemental damage is reflected, or better yet “stolen” to be instant cast at the opponent of our choice.
@kudia
I like the way you go on about being incompetant when it comes to other classes, then downplay our Ice Block as a “Side move”, lol.
I’m of the idea that fire mages should have a sort of “death bang.” Something that drains every ounce of mana the fire mage has left, causing a nuclear explosion damaging out in a wave from the dying mage. Might make people think twice about offing that full-mana fire mage. ^_^
LOL, kudos to cluelessnoob. kill ‘em with paper, and math. true research and some viable numbers – great response.
i’m willing to bet whiney-ret-boy won’t be posting here again.
i used to pvp on a warrior [titles and all] and a mage [not so many titles]. now i only pvp on a mage. this little remove immunity help won’t get me back on my warrior, not even close. [incoming whine] not until DK’s and ret-boys are brought back in line.
for now, my arcano-frost mix is fine for my pvp fix.
/tightens turniquet, lighter under spoon
I would love some kind of melee bounce back…sort of the way a Prot Warrior’s spell reflect works. It isn’t like they don’t alreay have 30k HP and when you finally land a big spell it gets reflected back at you taking half of your damage in one hit. Wouldn’t it be great if a rogue, pally, or warrior went to hit you but actually hit themselves. My only complaint about Mages is survivability vs the survivabilty of other classes. While other classes have seen boosts to survivability and dps, mages have gotten more dps boots, but little to no boost to survivability. I still pretty much always die to a rogue before I can even a get a spell off. I might get off a blink or slow or frost nova, but they just CoS out of it and then its over. Pallys have such huge burst with their stuns that you are usually almost dead before the stun wears off and warriors are a little easier to handle but still a very tough fight for a mage.
[...] 2) Stabbed in the Iceblock [...]
Interestingly, I’ve found that fire does pretty well against classes that perennially give mages trouble … Dragon’s Breath gives a mage a nice counter to Druids, who can shift out of every other CC a mage has. Blast Wave gives you an extra step on a Rogue. Burning Determination is great against DK’s, Shaman, and even Locks. A fire mage has two more interrupts than everyone else.
I’ve found I’m most successful in BG’s with fire when I run around doing utility things. Blast Wave people offa towers, or take the flag with Blazing Speed, or shut down enemy casters. This is great and all, but a fire spec won’t be arena viable until it can do more.
Control is only control, and fire has a hard time killing things. Most of its survivability is RNG—Impact, Blazing Speed, Molten Shields—as is all of its burst. I do like the way Molten Shields can function to make the mage a less attractive target, but until it comes off the RNG it won’t really matter.
The problem with shattering throw is the time. 1.5 seconds to cast.
This means that if you start casting AS SOON as you see the bubble up the pally is still going to get of 1…maybe 2 heals before your throw hits them(if your far away the throw actually takes time to travel) oh and don’t forget there’s the additional .5 – 1 second where the bubble doest actually burst so as long as the pally has a bubble/heal macro on cast sequence he can literally just spam the hell out of it and I’ve just wasted a 20% armor debuff. It’s much more beneficial to switch targets and hurt his healer so that you can either NUKE the healer and or buy an additional swing on the pally while the healer get’s his life back up.
Shattering throw is a joke of skill in PVP. Now if they made it so the pally bubble didn’t dispel mortal strike I’d be ok with that. As even the 1-2 heals he does get off will only be doing 1/2 of their potential.
YES warriors are STILL gimpy in arena. In BG it’s easier to cause havoc if you know what you’re doing. I am MID way through writing up a guide for warriors in BG’s as it’s easy to be tops in either damage, HK or KB’s for any semi decently geared warrior.