In true mage fashion, mere days after being handed a massive pile of steaming buff, I’m back here complaining up a storm.
QQ, as some might say.
Yes. Yes it is.
QQ moar, some might say.
To them, I say: Very well.
So Frostfire Bolt was fun. Unreasonably huge crits, easy to play, and took the other specs DPS and rap… royally thrashed them. Fireball was a little behind, but basically the same. Frost sucked, and so did arcane.
Arcane gets buffed so much it spewed sticky juices all over the wall. Fireball gets better, too, as TTW becomes a far more powerful talent. Who cares about Fireball, though? Have you seen the new spell animation? Blech.
Anyway, point is… where’s the love for frost? So far, this poor neglected tree has been depressingly low in it’s damage potential.
Sure, it’s devastating in Heroics and solo play, but toss it into a raid with proper boss fights, and the poor thing falls apart.
My opinion is that the problem is two fold.
First, frost is designed, or at least idealized, as a utility tree. It still suffers from the whole utility stigma that was so present in TBC.
The most popular thing brought up in arguments and debates about frost, on both sides, is the tree’s high survivability. Frost shouldn’t be buffed because it has high survivability… frost is an awesome tree because it has high survivability…
Let’s be honest here. The only type of survivability that matters is the survivability of the tank. Everything else is superfluous.
Sure, there might be gear check type stuff like “An AoE deals 8000 damage, therefore everyone must have over 8k health” or the ubiquitos [enter element here] resist fight.
But a frost mage can use Ice Barrier! If a fight requires 15k hitpoints, a frost mage can afford to go in with 12k, as the shield can make up the difference!
Holy hell you’re right! This means priests and paladins are intentionally designed to be less effective healers than shamans and druids!
And hey, toss druids in there, too. They can turn into bears, which boosts their HP. Therefore they can survive more, and because of that survivability, their effective healing should be lower.
See how ludicrous that is?
To be blunt, the survivability of a DPS class in a raid is completely irrelevant. I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again.
A DPS class is there to do damage. Anything else is inconsequential.
The other “utility” part of the equation is that of being a mana battery via the oh so awesome Water Elemental. That little guy is the only thing that provides an unrestricted raid wide mana restore buff.
The two closest to it is Judgement of Wisdom, requiring the target to be attacked, and, of course, Replenishment, which is limited to ten people.
Again, though, the same counter argument. Are Ret Pallies designed to do less damage than other DPS by sheer merit of Replenishment?
Buffing the Elemental’s mana restore isn’t the answer either. Making it equal or better than Replenishment would render the thing hopelessly overpowered.
Replenishment, as it is now, requires a class to do something DPS wise, an ability combo, a crit, something. WE requires a button to be pushed. Replenishment is a buff, which can be dispelled, and only applies to ten people at a time. WE simply exists, though it can be killed, and applies to forty people.
Of course, the mechanic could simply be changed to Replenishment outright and be done with it. But that… actually that’s a pretty good idea.
By the way, this is a good time to mention this…
Where the hell is the AoE damage reduction for mage pets? Warlocks have it, hunters have it, death knights have it…
King of AoE, my ass. More like King of Getting Killed by AoE.
I digress. Where was I?
Succinctly put, utility just doesn’t pertain to DPS. Moving on.
Frost needs to deal more damage in raids without becoming ineffaby powerful in PvP scenarios.
There are all the obvious band-aid solutions.
Buff Glyph of Frostbolt, for instance. No sane PvP frost mage would use that, as such it’s only relevant in a raiding environment.
Buff the damage the Water Elemental can deal. This is more of a gap closer than a real solution, as it would be a little extreme to suddenly boost the Elemental’s DPS by 500. Something small would be a lot less impactful, while still being a buff and a step in the right direction.
The impact on PvP would likely be small. Elementals are dealt with extremely quickly in PvP; any extra DPS added here would be nearly unnoticeable.
Playing with this idea, it’s also possible to steal some ideas from the Demonology or Beastmaster tree, allowing the frost mage and the elemental to play off each other a little more.
A boost to spellpower when the elemental is active, a large-ish buff when the elemental crits, a passive DPS boost along the lines of Focused Fire, all of these can be done without impacting PvP.
The key is that none of these can be powerful enough to be game changing in an arena. A 10% boost to damage while the elemental is active, for instance, is game changing, whereas a 3% boost is not.
Maybe a mechanic change, where using the Elemental’s ranged root causes Fingers of Frost to immediately proc for the mage.
Superfluous to the point of uselessness in PvP, it gives the raiding frost mage a mutated form of Combustion.
While we’re borrowing ideas from the other mage trees, how about a mana dump?
Frost mages are currently suffering from Infinite Mana Syndrome.
The very end of BC, when Replenishment was introduced, saw BM hunters in a position where it was nearly impossible for them to spend mana, no matter how hard they tried. Doubly so if JoW was active on the current DPS target.
Arcane is the poster child of mana throttling and mana dumps. It excels at those two concepts to the point that when “mana dump” is mentioned, an arcane mage is the first thing that comes to mind.
Fire based specs also have mana dumps, though to a lesser extent.
Look at it this way. Picture mana as water. Arcane can dump mana like dumping water out of an inverted bucket. Fire can dump mana like stabbing a decently sized hole in the bottom of a bucket.
Frost can dump mana like using ice cubes to displace the water in a bucket enough to knock some of it out.
Stupid similes and metaphors aside, frost doesn’t have a mana dump, and it should.
But what?
Deep Freeze seems the obvious candidate.
Tune in tomorrow to hear the chilling conclusion.
Instant death button for frost mages FTW. Currently it looks like level/grind as frost and re-spec for the “real work”. I guess it could be worse, the spec could be useless for grinding AND DPS. . .
AGREED. Where’s the love? Frost Mages actually got NERFED in this patch, receiving LESS snare effect from blizzard than they did in BC! This is terrible! Instead of QQ’ing about it, I rolled arcane since the patch because I’m a terrible person and a terrible player. Here are my solutions:
DPS
-Give Ice Lance more damage, so it actually becomes useful during FoF procs.
-Water Elemental Damage coefficient
-Give Winter’s chill the old Scorch effect.
MANA DUMP
-Give Blizzard a Missile Barrage effect, so it channels in half the time with more damage.
Two suggestions…
Make spell impact include frost bolt.
Second, a Ice Barrier glyph that turns it from a personal shield to a +10% spell power buff with limited charges (your next 15 spells will count as having 10% more spell power…)
There, fixed.
Ah, don’t get me started on Deep Freeze. I’m running Heroics with a genuinely suboptimal Water Elemental/Critical Mass Frost/Fire Frostfire build because of A) the massive drawback on Glyph of Frostbolt for anyone but a raid frostbolt spammer (who should just give up and go Frostfire already) and B) having the top talent in the tree be completely useless for pretty much every PVE situation.
Okay, I can get behind this. Buff frost for pve! Give Deep Freeze raid utility! While you’re at it, make it more interesting than bolt spam! Seriously, that’s boring as hell. I’m uncreatively thinking along the lines of Hot Streak, which would also give frost mages a mana dump, but really, anything would be better than the two-button crap that goes on now.
Then buff fire for pvp!
Amen. Frost has always been my first love, but I recently was forced to respec Frostfire simply because I need to do more damage in Raids.
For solo play, Frost is unbeatable. For raids, it’s sub-par. And it’s a real shame too because it’s a lot of fun to play.
Glyph of frostbolt annoys me. Let’s see, Glyph of fireball increases its damage, removing its (rubbish) DoT. Glyph of Frostfire has no downside at all, just ups damage and crit. Glyph of frostbolt removes the slowing effect?! That’s pretty serious and even makes solo grinding harder.
Even if they implement some stuff to buff frost which turns it more powerful in pvp it won’t be much of an issue considering the exceptionally decent frost resist sets available. Lacks a lot of stuff but comes with decent stam and sockets for some customizing and a truckload of frost resistance.
Frost has so much potential to be a fun tree… turn the floor into a frozen sheet increasing movement speed by 300% but making it unable to steer on for example…
So many fun things to do with frost and yet… well I suppose 1 tree will always stick out a little… aching to try arcane but that’s probably pointless at lvl 49 :S
Sucks to be a warlock hehe
This is what I have been telling my Arcane buddy all week. Frost needs a serious facelift. Last week, I could say, “well at least I do more damage then Arcane” and this week I can’t even say that anymore.
My ideas:
Flat 10% buff to all ranks of frostbolt. This won’t affect Pvp too much.
Glyph of Frostbolt: Remove the drawback effect entirely or completely overhaul the glyph. Change it to 2% dmg and crit similar to FFB glyph or make it stack 3 winter’s chill on each cast like the Scorch Glyph does.
Seriously, I’m in mostly PvE epics from 10-mans/badges/heroics (rest is heroic blues), and my dps tops out around 2700 against Archavon. FFB mages in quest reward greens and blues do just as much as I do.
/wave Arioch
The frost tree needs some loving for sure… I’m constantly hoping for the day when I find out that frost will be raidviable. Sure, it’s nice to see some big numbers on trash… but hey, who cares?
I’m in a good guild, they would never ask me to respec, but I’m sorry to say that I have abandoned my beloved frost for ffb… /cry
And Blizz’s repetitive excuses as to why frost dps shouldn’t be buffed is getting a bit tiresome tbh.
Yes, this is mage QQ!
“Let’s be honest here. The only type of survivability that matters is the survivability of the tank. Everything else is superfluous.”
SO true… and I don’t die more as ffb than I did as frost. If they give frost the ability to wear plate I might see survivability as a reason to nerf frost, but til then they can stick it.
<3 keep up the good work.
/wave DarkDalamar
So Fireball has a new graphic? Huh, I should try casting one to check that out, lol. The new Blizzard ground effect is pretty spiffy but I guess that doesn’t count as a buff for frost. =)
I was fire but slowly started drifting to arcane. By the time Wrath came out I was ready to go full-bore arcane.
I’m in craftable blues and purples and a couple nice drops from 5-mans (the offhand from Telestra on Heroic and the rest is from normal).
Last week I’m scratching to stay within 500 DPS of a frosty (who outgears me, see Dark’s post above). This week, I’m meeting and sometimes beating him on DPS in normal and heroics. Against Archavon, I can pull 2300+ with just an Arcane Blast ->Arcane Barrage / Arcane Blast -> Arcane Missile -> Arcane Barrage when Missile Barrage procs. If I were to stack the Arcane Blasts, I would be very near Dark’s damage with my sub-par gear.
As I am most certainly not in favor of nerfing arcane, I will rally with my fellow mages and QQ for a buff to frost.
Survivability? I hear that load of BS all the time. Hah! I do decent in regular PvE, but PvP sucks and I don’t even bother attempting to do raids. “Ice Block!” “Ice Block!” What for? It does nothing but make my ultimate demise last a few seconds longer, unless somebody else comes along, sees my distress, and smacks the ass of the mob or player spamming their crap on my frozen self. Perhaps it serves the purpose of being a temporary tank/distraction while someone else goes on ftw.
Change specs? NO WAY! I’m holding out because I love being frosty despite it all. I’ll play what I can and be happy.
Where do I begin? I played frost from Nov ’04 to January ’05 then took a break. When I came back my friends had joined horde so I tried out a priest and lock.
Now I’m leveling another mage (64) and although everything has changed, it feels like it’s all superficial. My hope is that at least 2 mage specs are viable (FFB 0/53/18, and Arcane 57/3/11) preferably 3 or more with hybrids