So why do people continue to play battlegrounds, not enjoy, not participate, yet spend literally hours on them?
Well, as I’ve said before, they do it for currency. Whatever attitude they have, the fact is, they need to and want to be arena viable. That means they have to have the best gear available to them, and since the gear upgrades every single season, they need to do the same.
Which means that these people who only want to do arenas are forced to do hours upon hours of battlegrounds in order to get the honour they need for new boots, bracers, a shiny new belt, and accessories.
This isn’t their fault. I am a very firm believer that people should not have to do things they don’t especially… well, want to do.
Unfortunately, in order to be truly competitive, they don’t have a choice in the matter.
And thusly, we arrive at my one true complaint with World of Warcraft.
If you want raid gear, you go raiding to get this gear. The better gear you have, the better you perform in a raiding environment. A warrior in tier 4 gear won’t perform as well in BT as a warrior in tier 6 gear.
Same holds true for arenas. Sort of.
If you want to do arena, well, you need top of the line arena gear. Thus, it stands to reason you would do arena to get that gear.
Except you can\t. You have to do battlegrounds too, and lots of them.
It would stand to reason, if you didn’t think very hard, that people who enjoy arenas thus enjoy all PvP, and would love to do battlegrounds. Feh.
Quite obviously, this isn’t the case. Not even sort of.
Especially now. The arena’s gear system currently locks a substantial amount of gear behind two barriers: currency earned through the activity itself (the better you perform, the more points you get), and you also need to maintain a certain rating (or rank) in order to unlock the ability to equip that gear.
Sound familiar at all? Perhaps a certain old honour system that was nearly universally loathed by everyone and their grandma?
See. This is what I hate about this game. The whole point behind PvP is that it’s supposed to be a battle of skill. You can shout and complain about class balance all you like, I’ve already stated that WoW is surprisingly well balanced for an MMO of this type. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t have problems, they’re just smaller.
So this whole skill thing kinda gets thrown out the window when you have a gear gap as incredibly wide as it is now.
If you’ve got a team in top of the line current season gear fighting against a team wearing the reputation PvP blues… you’re going to notice a difference in how well these teams perform (read: the rep. blues get rolled).
Imagine trying to play a Starcraft map where both of your opponents’ units have 35% more hitpoints than yours do, simply because they’ve been playing longer. Is that fair? Would battles between these players be competitive?
In an MMO, raiding/grinding/whatever to get new, shiny, better gear is the essence of why you do anything, in a practical sense. Sure, there’s community, some fights are fun, etc; but at its core, the game is all about getting new loots.
Sadly, this runs exactly counter to what a proper competitive environment is supposed to be. If it’s going to be true PvP, the gear gap between players cannot exist. This is why I liked the TTR (Tournament Test Realm) so much. Everyone had free access to the same level of gear, and the only differences were how players min/maxed their characters via gems, enchants, and talent specs.
And most importantly, upon starting an arena, everyone was on equal footing. In other words, true competition could be had.
I’ve long been a firm believer that PvP and PvE should be treated as completely different games. The mechanics between the two different forms of play are far too different to reconcile into something that could be treated as one, unified concept.
The only real way to ameliorate this would be a complete rehaul of the way PvE and/or PvP works.
Something that I, for one, would support, at least in regards to PvP.
PvP in WoW should have been closer to what it is in the Warcraft series. Along the lines of DotA (Defence of the Ancients) is what WoW PvP should be like, not this arena thing they currently have. Sure, the arenas are fun, even if the gear system behind it was abandoned to mass cheering years ago, but it’s the idea behind it that I don’t like.
This is WARCRAFT, not Guild Wars…
I don’t like the format. I don’t like the current gear system. And above all, the idea that these two brutally flawed systems is considered competitive… and they’re handing out cash prizes for it?
Ridiculous.
This is my biggest disappointment with WoW. I fully expected PvP in this game would be similar to what it was in Warcraft. I hoped this game would feel like the Warcraft universe when it came right down to it, rather than generic PvP in an MMO.
Alterac Valley is what I expected PvP to be like. A big map, lots of players, lots of NPC’s, lots of strategical points, and the idea that superior tactics and communication would always stand victorious.
More like a RTS game.
More like Warcraft.
You know if there was a cap on gear levels like there is to character levels then the discrepancy between a brand new 70, and a tier X 70 would be a bit less noticeable. Some endgame raids would have to be readjusted to rely more on skill than gear, but I think that could be an improvement too. This might encourage more flavorful builds since raid bosses/PvP rewards would be dropping specialized gear rather than just upgrade gear.
I have high hopes for PvP achievements and their impact on PvP for you and me.
I may yet be dissapointed…
I’d love a battleground that was more like any of the maps from Warcraft 3. Imagine starting out with basic blue gear and then getting upgrades by beating groups of enemies or capturing strategic objectives, with both sides racing for a mutual target somewhere at the end of the map.
Hell, make death permanent, or have your toon drop all his new gear on death. THAT would make for some awesome action.
Nothing is more frustrating than a battle that isn’t even close. I can see Blizzard wanting to reward PVP, but you’re dead on about the gear gap disparity.
Ideally, I’d love to see a PVP system where the rewards are totally PVE-focused, and every match (BG or Arena) has everyone set in basically the same gear. For arena’s perhaps you could visit a colliseum outfitter and pick from a selection of items so that min/maxing and team composition retain their strategic component. Good PVP should give people an edge against the rest of the game, but against other players, skill should always be the deciding factor.
Gear is only half of it. Ive seen people with welfare epics (read: season 2 gear) beating full s3+ opponents.
Skilled players are still skilled players, and while they may be at an extreme disadvantage when using insanely undergeared characters, obtaining the minimum available epic gear can still prove to be an avenue to success.
However, that said, the grind is still a pain.
On the flip side, everyone past a certain rating point has the same gear (essentially) and believing that the S3 to S4 upgrade is going to make or break a game is ridiculous.
Euripedes
I agree with your basic premis that PVP is fundamentally unbalance by the current personal rating requirement and by the must PVP in both Arenas & BGs requirement.
However, I for one don’t see a easy fix to this.
Bliz created this new system to try to REDUCE afking. I think for the most part it has worked.
BGs are more lively than ever.
But the chances of moving past my personal best of a 1554 arena rating are slim unless I can find a top performing team to carry me. And that DOES feel broken.
But the alternative (what we used to have) is worse.
So much AFKing for free gear! So much QQing from raiders!
And it does seem “wrong” that I could get such gear (like I did) without ever raiding (which I never had time for).
I’m not smart enough to solve this myself.
Bliz tried something (which feels like an improvement to me) which you’re clearly disatisfied with.
I’m not so sure I like your idea either.
So now what?
I agree with your basic premise too.. except saying AV is real PVP is ridiculous. That whole AV thing has become a mad rush to the general. A zerg kill if you will. Not real PVP. I hate grinding BGs for gear too. it sucks so bad but it is the easiest attainable starter gear for a 70. It is easier than low end purple PVE gear.
I might like Arena I am not sure. Something is kind of cool about a closed area of combat between some skilled classes. I agree that I get killed in Arena though because I only have like 4-BG Purples or so right now.
“However, I for one don’t see a easy fix to this.”
Neither do I. The solution of having everybody in the same gear runs counter to everything an MMO is about.
As to AV… well. See the next post coming up.
[...] PartIII [...]
Naked Arena! *cackle*
..nothing but grease – traditional style *dies laughing at the image of a greased tauren*
I would generally agree with you, i hate the idiots in BG’s im an enthusiast (yes i read the other ones) And the pvp is kind of stupid other than AV (WTF WHY DO WE NEED THIS FLAG????? WHAT PURPOSE DOES IT SERV?) but the pvp in WoW is exactly that, WoW its not warcraft, its not an RTS and its the way WoW is supposed to be, because thats the way it is. I dont agree with this i liked the RTS version of PVP (AV) but you have to think about the other side too.
While I found your view on the subject interesting I wholeheartedly disagree with almost everything you’ve said.
Your basic complaint is about a system you support that others do not. BG’s are a means to an end for most players, not the minority that just truly enjoy them. The 3 groups point is somewhat valid however that is just simply your view on it.
N00bs will always be n00bs. They are no different in Dungeons, Heroics and Raids either. BG’s don’t have a monopoly on crappy players trying to win but fail epically. The same can be said about the other 2. There will always be people farming every aspect of the game as a means to an end.
What I don’t agree with is your view on pvp. You QQ about the way it is set up but from what I hear most people like it. Not everyone wants to run the same maps over and over day in and day out doing the same thing every time. That to most is boring. “Get the farm, capture the castle, defend x base”. That I’m sorry to say is not what pvp is all about.
If you want a true pvp don’t do BG’s, do world pvp. That is “true” pvp, not just some random BG. Killing someone in a world situation is how the game should be played. I’m not referring to ganking, but that is far more in the “essence of the game” then having other players just handed to you on a silver platter.
Your opinion is well thought out and you are entitled to it, but you seem to presume the majority of people agree with it. Very few people do that I’ve talked to (at least on this subject).
[...] PartIII [...]